Bullwings

Wow! I always had aspirations of a shift at 9.5K all day every day motor with ITBs - i guess this isn't it.

I see both sides of the coin here, but at the same time, I'm not going to say that a reputation hasn't been damaged here...

Does Cosworth not make some sort of built S2k motor? In your shoes, I would be very wary of going overseas. Unfortunate situation all around, but I can't say I wouldn't be pissed. Hell, I was pretty disappointed at some used shocks that I bought after I sent them out for dynoing to be revalved/built - they were in piss poor condition.

If something like this happened to me, I'm fairly certain that I'd be much less civil than this.

Similarly, from Urge's standpoint, I can also understand and see their position as a business. At this point, it's business decision on their part. How does a thread like this affect future sales/business versus what would have the cost been for them to reach a little bit deeper in their pockets to work with MB? It's hard to see how that plays out.

For a situation like this one, there are no winners, only losers. Someone is out $17k + donor motor, and a business that specifically targets the S2K market has had its reputation tarnished. It's hard to monetize that, but they teach you in business school (from undergrad to graduate) that the reputation of your brand is priceless.

Both parties will walk away from this having lost something - whether or not both parties learn something is a different scenario... Best of luck to both.

mattie170

Mark, If you feed oil temp and pressure into the aem can you have ignition cut if the oil pressure drops below a certain point or temp goes beyond a point? I know all the evo guys with the m800 do this as if they don't have a dry sump they WILL get oil surge so it stops them from pushing any harder around corners.

deepbluejh

I do agree that the odds of you getting a fair deal as things stand now is slim - which is really unfortunate. For as much as you spent on the motor, Urge probably should have flown someone out to you to assess the situation in person. They may technically be in the right by asking you to send the motor back, but they're not going to win any customer service points from the way this situation has been handled.

MB

I agree Deepblue.

Mattie, I'm not sure on that. Will check though. I have a digital gauge with warning lights in the car, so I will know if I have surge issues. I'd repeat though that this was not oil starvation.

Thanks again for all the comments.

SlowTeg

Are you an engine builder or an internet expert? If you have a good explanation of WHY you think the inspector "doesn't understand the motor at all" I'd love to hear it. Personally I can't stand people who run their mouth without the first clue. I've built a few engines with friends, but I'll be the first to admit that I can't verify whether the inspector's claims are valid or not. They sure SEEM plausible though. Main bearings destroyed like that in such a short period is very strange. I've seen engines with oil starvation spin rod bearings and some wear on main bearings over a LONG period of time, but not 2 hrs.

SlowTeg

Bordered on inappropriate? Perhaps you ought to re-read the posts. My original response to you was in regards to the ridiculous claim that MB wanted some kind of PROMISE that he'd be reimbursed. I don't remember him saying or even mildly insinuating that, he just merely wanted a fair inspection. Seeing how a fair inspection is obviously not going to happen, you'd have to be dumb as rocks to waste time and money shipping everything back and forth.

Gernby

I've been trying to ignore this thread since Friday, but eventually wound up reading the emailed post notifications. While there were many inflamatory / insulting posts that I wanted to respond to (about me personally even), I think this one will be the only one that I should respond to.

When I lost my stock F22C just seconds after jumping the curb like MB did, the damage was not typical of oil starvation. Since the engine went from perfect to crap after just 8 minutes of warm up laps, and was making knocking noises, it seemed like I probably spun bearing. However, the knocking was different than what I had heard from other engines with spun rod bearings. Every engine that I have heard with a bad rod bearing caused rod knock that occurred very slowly at idle (for example about 200 knocks per minute or 1/4 of idle RPM for a 4 cylinder). Furthermore, the knock tended to get quieter above idle. However, the noises my motor made were not only much faster, but were much more consistent in the way it followed RPM. For a while, I thought something must have gone wrong with the clutch, since I could feel very significant vibration in the clutch pedal, and the engine still seemed to run okay (below VTEC). On the other hand, the fact that VTEC would not engage consistently made it clear that there was some sort of oil pressure problem.

When I finally just took it to the dealership for them to check it out, they found that the main bearings were shot. They didn't mention anything about heat buildup or oil starvation, but they did ask me to show proof of my last oil change. In the end, they wound up replacing the short block under warranty. While I believed then that it was just a freak failure of the oil pump, and had nothing to do with ramping the curb, I really believe now that it had to be the curb. It makes me feel guilty that I had it repaired under warranty.

Basically, I'm not an expert, but I think that oil starvation typically occurs slowly over a period of time, with oil pressure slowly dropping below what is needed to lubricate the bearings. However, in cases like mine (and I believe MB's), oil pressure just drops to zero for a moment, but gives enough time for the bearings to be hammered without heat buildup.

deepbluejh

You sure are angry, and I'm not sure why.

My comments were based off the fact that MB's engine inspector seems to think that Urge sold him an inherently imbalanced motor from the factory, when Urge has documented proof that the engine was in fact exceptionally well balanced.

SlowTeg

The only "problem" with your assessment is I'd expect more from an engineer using anecdotal evidence. Sample sizes of 1 aren't very useful, especially when we've had a dozen people go through similar circumstances yet their motor didn't go kaput. We also have no clue about the host of other conditions your car goes through. You auto-x quite a bit if I recall correctly from your posts, maybe you lost oil pressure/etc at some point prior, and the bump from a curb just finished the engine off. Maybe your engine was defective from honda? Were you the original owner of the car? There are a multitude of reasons we could point to. Bottom line, there's no strong support that the jump was the root cause of the engine failure.

wadzii

but bro, we jump curbs in s2000's all the time w/o popping a motor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faBoCgEVoH4