MB

Lower, I had to ask numerous times about why it had failed and what they were going to do about it. To be fair Patrick eventually replied a few weeks back saying send it back economy and they will fix and pick up the shipping bill. At that point things had gone sour so i'm just going to get it fixed within the engine repair scope (its a simple weld repair and a stifferer added) but it was a fair offer and what should have also applied to the engine. I was more concerned about why it had already been reparied and if it was related to engine vibration.

NY, also woorth mentioning that the $17k didn't include the donor engine. That was provided to do the build, and it was $17k on top. So i'm in the same place as you profit wise. These are big sums of money.

HappyMint

I don't have anything relevant or worthwhile to add, but I will say this, so it's clear that there is a cost to not providing good customer service, I will be avoiding Urge in future engine build scenarios (which I WILL have). I'll be going with Central NC Speedshop.

I think that MB has enough of a reputation and experience racing that he should be given the benefit of the doubt regarding the care of his car and engine. I ludicrous to insinuate that he chose some incompetent tuner or that he hasn't solved the catch can oil issue on long right sweepers yet, the dude is a Mod on this forum, has been on here for 10 years, has 32k posts, and has been racing for years. Do you all really think he'd make such a noobie mistake?

Castoo

I was pointed to this forum from a very good friend of mine who races a S2000. I also build 4cyl race engines (not Honda's)
A person's post count nor amount of racing doesn't make them incapable of making mistakes.

I happen to be in pro racing also and I watch professionals who have raced for 30yrs make stupid mistakes all the time.

You don't balance 4cyl inline cranks with bob weights. How can you take these people serious?

MB

I'd be interested to know what sort of mistake I could have made to fatigue all 5 main bearings 10 minutes into a race though?

Bobweight balance card came from Endyn.

Sebring AP1

This thread is saying a lot about certain members (some of you are moronic to the core) and a lot of our vendors, who they choose to partner with, and how they conduct business.

You make 17k on a donor motor for shit work you damn well better make it right. Weaseling your way out of it to keep money in your pocket is bullshit. MB has been a member for as long as I can remember, and doesn't cut corners when it comes to his car. He's raced multiple seasons on an OEM block, I am quite sure he knows what bases to cover before operating his vehicle on track.

Shocked to have found this thread, and glad I did. Sorry this happened to you MB, wish you the best moving forward. You are being far more civil regarding the matter than I.

99SH

At this point are you sill in communication with either Urge or Endyn?

andrewhake

My only problem with this whole situation, is that I find it hard to believe after the numerous exchanges I have had personally with the people at Urge that their initial response to this failure would have been in anyway hostile. (I can't say the same for Endyn) I can say without a doubt that the customer service I have received from Urge has been the best I have received from any vendor in the business of selling S2000 parts. Not only that, I have seen other customers receive the same treatment first hand. I have a 100+ email exchange between myself and Patrick thoroughly discussing even the most minor details of my current Ohlins DFV/HyperCo setup. I made my purchase and a short time later Ohlins decided to reduce the price by a significant amount (nothing to do with Urge). Without even contacting Urge about this (I didn't feel entitled to anything), I received a message from them letting me know they would happily provide me a discount on future purchases because of the situation.

This is a very different situation with a lot more money involved and more parties, but customer service involves helping every customer equally, whatever amount they spend.

That said. The other party involved hear (Endyn) seems to have been the main contributing factor to this particular situation. Unless I am missing something, Larry never seemed to show any interest in solving the problem, or even determining the source. While I still don't believe they should just cover the entire cost sight unseen, they should be genuinely interested in getting the engine back, whatever the shipping cost, to determine the reason for failure. A good engineer doesn't just make assumptions about why something has failed, they determine the exact cause of the problem so they can actually solve it. All of the blueprinting and balancing in the world doesn't mean shit if it doesn't work in the real world does it? If they genuinely believe MB is fully responsible for the damage, they should explain very clearly what was done wrong, and should have done everything they could to prevent it from happening. The whole "I thought you knew what you were doing" argument is bullshit when it really comes down to it.

I could care less about how much money has been spent, but looking at everything again fresh, there is no chance I would do business with a company like Endyn if they are truly that uninterested in determining the cause of this failure. I am curious to hear from some of the engineers here though. If Endyn is to blame, what did they do wrong? None of the analysis so far really seems to show much other than assumption unfortunately.

MB

To be clear, Patrick has always been very helpful and has always done what he could to provide answers to questions. The issue came when I asked about warranty and if the repair cost would be covered, as I was concerned about costs. Given the $$$$ involved I was just looking for a positive response. That was the point where I got a response along the lines of 'we will warranty it if it's our fault' but then also a list of things they thought could be my fault (and this was based on info i'd openly and honestly supplied) with a statement about some of my info providing grounds for negligence. They did note that they would do what they could to discount parts and shipping if I wanted to maange this locally, but that has never materialised.

This is where I asked how it was possible a bottom end failure could be my problem. After a bit of back and forwards, the tone of the conversation (including the example from Endyn) led me to decide I had to get it inspected over here, by someone independant.

After sending on the findings, the competence of my engine builder was questioned and claims about detonation were made as to the cause of failure (det causing main bearings to fail and not the big ends??)

Last week I decided the conversations were going nowhere than me trying to defend myself, hence this post.

Even at the first report the engine failed there was no apology whatsoever.

I have the whole email transcript from the start of the failure to now, and whilst i'm 100% happy to post it (it would be to my advantage) I think it's unfair to do so, so I won't be.

MB

PS in most failures there is an element of assumption as to the cause. All my findings are on my 1st post.

If those bearings had suffered excess heat due to either starvation or excessive oil temps, I could look at possible errors on my side like my cooling system. But even starvation (which it's not) you would have to argue the engine was not up to the job as I was specifically told that if using slicks (which I don't) an accusump may be required. The rest of my system is unchanged in 3 race seasons.

Remember, the big end bearings are ok, the mains are destroyed. This and the way they are destroyed supports the theory on the crank. The top end is fine so i've not tried to claim any issue there.

To date the best theory is the one in my 1st post.

redboost10

in the very first picture in post number 1, is that a stock throttle body?