Skip Shift, a definition
07-02-2012, 12:02 PM
#11
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i never skip shift unless a double clutch is involved and a rev match...but thats just because i have to treat mine like a princess in between beatings 
Not to say i don't do it while driving it hard, but i don't feel the need to skip shift while driving it hard? idk. Lol
Not to say i don't do it while driving it hard, but i don't feel the need to skip shift while driving it hard? idk. Lol
07-02-2012, 06:49 PM
#12
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As long as it isn't between extremes, there is no reason not to skip gears going up or down.
For example, going from first to sixth gear at 1,000 rpm (stalling the car) or sixth to first gear at 8,000 rpm (immediate bounce off the rev limiter and shock to the drivetrain to say the least) will cause you some obvious problems, but skipping from first to third or fifth to second should be fine.
Just be sure to not swing between extremes. You can get a feel for what the limits are by skipping only one gear at a time for practice. Bascially, you're just picking the right gear for the job at that time -- based on driving conditions and whether you need additional or less power. If there is any reason not to do this, it's news to me:
I skip gears on a daily basis on every manual transmission car I ever owned, and automatics are designed to skip gears as well -- depending on how aggressively the driver uses the throttle.
Welcome to the club, and hopefully this helps!
For example, going from first to sixth gear at 1,000 rpm (stalling the car) or sixth to first gear at 8,000 rpm (immediate bounce off the rev limiter and shock to the drivetrain to say the least) will cause you some obvious problems, but skipping from first to third or fifth to second should be fine.
Just be sure to not swing between extremes. You can get a feel for what the limits are by skipping only one gear at a time for practice. Bascially, you're just picking the right gear for the job at that time -- based on driving conditions and whether you need additional or less power. If there is any reason not to do this, it's news to me:
I skip gears on a daily basis on every manual transmission car I ever owned, and automatics are designed to skip gears as well -- depending on how aggressively the driver uses the throttle.
Welcome to the club, and hopefully this helps!
07-02-2012, 07:51 PM
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Hi. I had no idea how controversial a topic this would turn out to be, but I googled a few things you might find of interest:
1. "Skipping gears in a manual transmission car or truck is fine as long as you do it at the right speeds. You have to be going the correct speed for the gear you choose."
-- "How to Bypass Gears in a Manual Transmission" eHow
2. "How to Drive Economically" HowStuffWorks
3. "How To Drive A Stick Shift Car: How to Bypass Gears in a Manual" YouTube
NOTE: I do not recommend for or against skipping gears. I skip gears when it suits me, and I don't see why someone that is proficient with a manual transmission shouldn't. In addition, I found no professional resources that advised against skipping gears -- outside of unduly lugging or racing the engine.
Maybe we should recommend this for an episode of Mythbusters? Any other thoughts?
1. "Skipping gears in a manual transmission car or truck is fine as long as you do it at the right speeds. You have to be going the correct speed for the gear you choose."
-- "How to Bypass Gears in a Manual Transmission" eHow
2. "How to Drive Economically" HowStuffWorks
3. "How To Drive A Stick Shift Car: How to Bypass Gears in a Manual" YouTube
NOTE: I do not recommend for or against skipping gears. I skip gears when it suits me, and I don't see why someone that is proficient with a manual transmission shouldn't. In addition, I found no professional resources that advised against skipping gears -- outside of unduly lugging or racing the engine.
Maybe we should recommend this for an episode of Mythbusters? Any other thoughts?
07-02-2012, 08:50 PM
#14
Registered User
Hi. I had no idea how controversial a topic this would turn out to be, but I googled a few things you might find of interest:
1. "Skipping gears in a manual transmission car or truck is fine as long as you do it at the right speeds. You have to be going the correct speed for the gear you choose."
-- "How to Bypass Gears in a Manual Transmission" eHow
2. "How to Drive Economically" HowStuffWorks
3. "How To Drive A Stick Shift Car: How to Bypass Gears in a Manual" YouTube
NOTE: I do not recommend for or against skipping gears. I skip gears when it suits me, and I don't see why someone that is proficient with a manual transmission shouldn't. In addition, I found no professional resources that advised against skipping gears -- outside of unduly lugging or racing the engine.
Maybe we should recommend this for an episode of Mythbusters? Any other thoughts?
1. "Skipping gears in a manual transmission car or truck is fine as long as you do it at the right speeds. You have to be going the correct speed for the gear you choose."
-- "How to Bypass Gears in a Manual Transmission" eHow
2. "How to Drive Economically" HowStuffWorks
3. "How To Drive A Stick Shift Car: How to Bypass Gears in a Manual" YouTube
NOTE: I do not recommend for or against skipping gears. I skip gears when it suits me, and I don't see why someone that is proficient with a manual transmission shouldn't. In addition, I found no professional resources that advised against skipping gears -- outside of unduly lugging or racing the engine.
Maybe we should recommend this for an episode of Mythbusters? Any other thoughts?
tl;dr
do not skip gears in an s2000.
07-02-2012, 09:15 PM
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Hi. I had no idea how controversial a topic this would turn out to be, but I googled a few things you might find of interest:
1. "Skipping gears in a manual transmission car or truck is fine as long as you do it at the right speeds. You have to be going the correct speed for the gear you choose."
-- "How to Bypass Gears in a Manual Transmission" eHow
2. "How to Drive Economically" HowStuffWorks
3. "How To Drive A Stick Shift Car: How to Bypass Gears in a Manual" YouTube
NOTE: I do not recommend for or against skipping gears. I skip gears when it suits me, and I don't see why someone that is proficient with a manual transmission shouldn't. In addition, I found no professional resources that advised against skipping gears -- outside of unduly lugging or racing the engine.
Maybe we should recommend this for an episode of Mythbusters? Any other thoughts?
1. "Skipping gears in a manual transmission car or truck is fine as long as you do it at the right speeds. You have to be going the correct speed for the gear you choose."
-- "How to Bypass Gears in a Manual Transmission" eHow
2. "How to Drive Economically" HowStuffWorks
3. "How To Drive A Stick Shift Car: How to Bypass Gears in a Manual" YouTube
NOTE: I do not recommend for or against skipping gears. I skip gears when it suits me, and I don't see why someone that is proficient with a manual transmission shouldn't. In addition, I found no professional resources that advised against skipping gears -- outside of unduly lugging or racing the engine.
Maybe we should recommend this for an episode of Mythbusters? Any other thoughts?
07-02-2012, 09:18 PM
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FluKy15, on 02 July 2012, said:
I went through all of your links and found nothing that is true facts. It in general said, in all your links, it is possible to skip gears in a manual transmission car, and it gets better gas mileage. There was no information about mechanically why you should or should not do it. There was no mechanical information on what is happening in the transmission. Unless you know what is happening inside the transmission do not skip your gears. Honda even issued statements about not skipping gears, if I can find it I will post it. The double clutch is the only way to do it safely, but in my opinion, why? I go through every gear matching the rpms, and I consider it practice/fun.
tl;dr
do not skip gears in an s2000.
jackhare, on 02 July 2012, said:
If you can find a Honda issued statement on skipping gears, please post it. That would be worth considering. Until then, I will continue to skip gears or go through them sequentially as I see fit. Other than Gernby's account of redlining in second gear and shifting to fifth gear causing damage to a synchronizer, I never experienced anything like that in twenty years of driving -- and I have never personally known anyone that had a similar story. BUT... I respect your right to click through every gear.
I went through all of your links and found nothing that is true facts. It in general said, in all your links, it is possible to skip gears in a manual transmission car, and it gets better gas mileage. There was no information about mechanically why you should or should not do it. There was no mechanical information on what is happening in the transmission. Unless you know what is happening inside the transmission do not skip your gears. Honda even issued statements about not skipping gears, if I can find it I will post it. The double clutch is the only way to do it safely, but in my opinion, why? I go through every gear matching the rpms, and I consider it practice/fun.
tl;dr
do not skip gears in an s2000.
jackhare, on 02 July 2012, said:
If you can find a Honda issued statement on skipping gears, please post it. That would be worth considering. Until then, I will continue to skip gears or go through them sequentially as I see fit. Other than Gernby's account of redlining in second gear and shifting to fifth gear causing damage to a synchronizer, I never experienced anything like that in twenty years of driving -- and I have never personally known anyone that had a similar story. BUT... I respect your right to click through every gear.
07-02-2012, 09:34 PM
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I went through all of your links and found nothing that is true facts. It in general said, in all your links, it is possible to skip gears in a manual transmission car, and it gets better gas mileage. There was no information about mechanically why you should or should not do it. There was no mechanical information on what is happening in the transmission. Unless you know what is happening inside the transmission do not skip your gears. Honda even issued statements about not skipping gears, if I can find it I will post it. The double clutch is the only way to do it safely, but in my opinion, why? I go through every gear matching the rpms, and I consider it practice/fun.
tl;dr
do not skip gears in an s2000.
tl;dr
do not skip gears in an s2000.
But/So if you aren't comfortable skip shifting, don't do it..
I watch lots of utube videos where men are downshifting at too high an RPM, and that's hard on the whole engine, the clutch, the transmission. Rev limiters don't help in that case, only when going up through the gears.
07-02-2012, 10:03 PM
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I agree.. I've skipped shifted all my life, and had one tranny finally give up, with 750K miles on it. I've never hurt a tranny's syncros an appreciable amount in all the years I've owned them. When just driving around town and I need to come to a stop, I simply snick it into neutral, and coast to a stop, to save the clutch a little tiny bit of grief. Now if the light changes while coasting I try to rev match and slip into the appropriate gear, which is kinda fun. I've only recently began coasting in neutral, do to a post in here somewhere recommending it. It said brake pads are cheap, and clutches are not.. something like that. To me this whole topic is logic based on experience. Most folks can tell when things done with the transmission are correct or not. You can feel it. But some don't.
07-02-2012, 10:48 PM
#19
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Ok I do admit I am being a bit harsh on this topic, but that is because there are quite a few people who do not do it properly. I am no master at mechanical know-how, I am always learning more. Here is what I have found though so far, relating to skip shifting, and what is happening.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_clutch
The bold is the important part. In short, double-clutching, or shifting extremely slow, would be the safe technique if one were to skip shift. Is it recommended? Not really no. Can you do it? Yea sure, it is your car.
Ill keep looking for the statement from Honda.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_clutch
Before the introduction of transmission synchronizers (in the 1920s) and helical cut gears, double clutching was a technique required to prevent damage to an automobile's gear system. Due to the difficulty and most often unnecessary redundancy involved in learning the technique, coupled with the advent of synchronized gearing systems, it has largely fallen into disuse. However, drivers of large trucks often use the double clutching technique when unable to keep the transmission unloaded during shifting, as large vehicles are usually equipped with older, simpler and more durable unsynchronized gearboxes.
The purpose of the double-clutch technique is to aid in matching the rotational speed of the input shaft being driven by the engine to the rotational speed of the gear you wish to select (directly connected to rotating wheels). When the speeds are matched, the gear will engage smoothly and no clutch is required. If the speeds are not matched, the dog teeth on the collar will "crash" or grate as they attempt to fit into the holes on the desired gear. A modern synchromesh gearbox accomplishes this synchronization more efficiently. However, when the engine speed is significantly different than the transmission speed, the desired gear can often not be engaged even in a fully synchronized gearbox. An example is trying to shift into a gear while travelling outside the gear's speed or directional range, such as accidentally into 1st from near the top of 2nd, or intentionally from reverse to a forward gear whilst still moving at speed.
Double clutching, although time consuming, eases gear selection when an extended delay or variance exists between engine and transmission speeds.
The purpose of the double-clutch technique is to aid in matching the rotational speed of the input shaft being driven by the engine to the rotational speed of the gear you wish to select (directly connected to rotating wheels). When the speeds are matched, the gear will engage smoothly and no clutch is required. If the speeds are not matched, the dog teeth on the collar will "crash" or grate as they attempt to fit into the holes on the desired gear. A modern synchromesh gearbox accomplishes this synchronization more efficiently. However, when the engine speed is significantly different than the transmission speed, the desired gear can often not be engaged even in a fully synchronized gearbox. An example is trying to shift into a gear while travelling outside the gear's speed or directional range, such as accidentally into 1st from near the top of 2nd, or intentionally from reverse to a forward gear whilst still moving at speed.
Double clutching, although time consuming, eases gear selection when an extended delay or variance exists between engine and transmission speeds.
Ill keep looking for the statement from Honda.
07-03-2012, 07:16 AM
#20
When you move between gears, there is no way to know how fast the "middle" section of the drivetrain is spinning. The driver has control of the engine speed via the gas pedal, and the driver can see how fast the back half of the engine is spinning by looking at the speedometer. However, when the transmission is in neutral and the clutch is disengaged, much of the transmission is totally disconnected from the engine AND back wheels. Furthermore, the clutch friction disk acts like a flywheel when the clutch is disengaged, and will keep the "front" of the transmission spinning at high speed for some period of time. If the tranmission oil was infinitely slippery, and there was no friction in the assembly, the disconnected section of the transmission would stay spinning at 8-9K RPMs forever after a trip to redline. However, there is friction, so the disconnected components will slow down on their own. The question is ... how long does it take for them to slow down to the speed they will need to be at for the next gear? If you're switching from 2nd to 3rd, the components don't have that much to slow down, but if you're going from 2nd (at redline) to 6th, then those shafts and friction disk need to slow down a LOT. Since there's know way to know how fast those shafts are spinning, you just have to make a guess between 1, 2, 3, or 5 seconds to wait before selecting 6th. Even then, you don't know if that was long enough. The syncrhonizers act like brake pads on those shafts, so if you rely on them to shave off a ton of rotational speed every time you skip a gear, you are absolutely going to shorten the life of those "brake pads".