wildcardtrd

np
It may take me a few days to get around to answering, I'm in my senior level mech. engineering classes right now, and they're consuming almost all of my attention.

ArchAngel2K

imo. wildcardtrd please dont take offense to this but i think itb's are a waste of time. sure they look sexy and sound effing awsome but for the money spent for them plus an aem ems i dont think they are worth the 23 hp that you get. now for half that price have inline pro build you a head for $2300 and get a good hondata program your looking at least a 45whp gain. plus after that you will be able to turn that sucker up to 10k rpm safely. what a sound

Terror

ITB's arent for everyone. They may sound like a waste to you, but to someone who tracks their car, they are invaluable.

S2Kage

Can someone explain to me why the Emanage isnt good to tune ITBs with? Ive read alot of "No's" in previous ITB forums and some people go a little into it but ive never had a full explanation.

ArchAngel2K

what about J's racing, what about Spoon both highly respected track cars that dont have ITB's. I think ITB's should be the very last thing you modify on your engine only and only if that car is going to be strictly track.
oh and for those that do track their cars, rear gears is the way to go. rear gears, nice suspension set up and possibly some aerodynamics if they are going on more than just a AutoX track. Leave the engine stock for the most part just get a new high flow air filter, a snorkel and exhaust. honda made that engine perfect from the factory

wildcardtrd

[QUOTE=ArchAngel2K,Sep 30 2008, 07:56 PM]imo. wildcardtrd please dont take offense to this but i think itb's are a waste of time.

Terror

Mmm! That area under the curve makes my mouth water.

s20004lifehomes

Ahhhhhh gorgeous, i cant wait to have my ITB's!

ArchAngel2K

that is a nice set up but think about how much more your going to have to spend getting the ITB's, then getting an EMS, then a wideband, then proper tuning. that is a bunch of $$$. now if you get the head built by a shop or if you have the ability to do it your self will cost you half as much. i guess the view im looking at is bang for buck. i just dont think ITB's and a ecu tune is the way to go untill the whole motor is built. even then (this is just me) i wouldnt use ITB's because you are taking in a bunch of hot air. now if you had that built engine and you use the stock air box (i would) cut out that wall and take off that little router that is on the top of the box, put a heat shield somewhere around the box to keep engine heat away then get a snorkel to rout the cooler air toward the intake. then if you want to increase air pressure so that it will be even colder going into the manifold get the spoon sports venturi effect throttle body. it will take your ambient air temp and air pressure, increase the air pressure so that the vacuum created by the pistons will pull that air in a lot faster. pressurized air when its released is generally colder.

Lets put it this way you get 20 people you line them up in 2 rows of 10 and they need to get into a single man door way before the door shuts. to get out they need to push harder to get through so once they are trying to force through when they get out the other side of the door they speed up because there is no longer any resistance. same goes with air molecules you have a large opening for the throttle body then you have a smaller butterfly and a larger opening to the manifold the molecules are wanting to get through the throttle body quicker. faster air is colder air. now taking that cool ambient air then increasing pressure to make it faster becomes even colder. That is my theory and im sticking to it.
oh and this is the opinion of a Universal Technical Institute Graduate and student of the course for power and performance 1&2 and student of the course for Street Legal performance.

wildcardtrd

Increasing the velocity of the air will not reduce its temperature. If anything, it increases it (so slightly though you cant really tell w/o insanely expensive equipment). Temperature is nothing more than the measure of the enthalpy , the atomic energy stored in the air molecules being acted on by kinetic energy (i.e. in motion) divided by the specific heat of the ideal gas (air), which under ambient conditions, is effectively a constant. The velocity of the air mass is not a factor in the enthalpy derivation, neither is the constant-pressure specific heat, C-sub-p; therefor velocity has no effect on temperature. As far as your statement of increasing the pressure will cause a decrease in temperature, again, you are incorrect. PV=RT is the ideal gas law, where P is pressure, V is volume, R is the universal gas constant, and T is temperature. As you can see, since R is a constant, and unless your volume gets reduced at a factor greater than your pressure increase, your temperature is going to increase with increased pressure.

You cannot increase the pressure of the incoming air stream, either. Air acts as an ideal gas, and under these rules, remains an incompressible fluid until its mach number reaches approximately 0.3. In other words, no induction system that does not consume energy to act on the air, on the face of the planet, will increase the pressure of the incoming air mass stream, until the air mass stream reaches speeds of just over 300 mph at sea level.

Congrats on your graduation from UTI, that is a good school for technical application of the material and I'm not intending to knock you at all, but as far as design criteria goes, you can't trump a 4 year BSME. Fluid Mechanics 1 & 2, Thermodynamics 1 & 2, heat transfer, Thermodynamics of Fluids analysis, vibrations analysis, machine design, structure and properties of materials, chemestry for engineers, i could go on and on and on about the background I've been building on for the last couple of years. If you have any questions at all, I'd be glad to help explain, and I'll even post up some equations if you'd like proof. Google the ideal gas law, it's a good starting point