In-Depth testing of 60mm Dual vs. 70mm Single
#111
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[QUOTE=Hirevs2k,Jan 14 2011, 08:18 AM] i don't have any dyno plots or anything coz it's not worth showing or braggin. anyhow, i used to have a 2.5" bluddy club spec III exhaust and it is weaker than my new set up which is greddy 70mm ti-c. granted, the peak whp wasn't much of a gain but the fact was, i didn't lose any hp over 2.5" exhaust. and in fact, i gained a shit ton of midrange whp.
#112
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Originally Posted by Crackerballer,Jan 14 2011, 08:48 AM
Gernby, great tests and we appreciate your efforts, but you will never be able to please everyone on this board. There are so many people who would rather try to prove you wrong then help you move forward to valid conclusions or ideas for future testing that you would go insane if you worried about them all.
I just wish I wouldn't have picked such a "hot bed" topic as my first "test results" thread. This 70mm exhaust test represents probably 10% of the results that I've put together over the last 6 weeks. I have so much test data to share that I really don't know how to organize it all. However, after all the bullshit in this thread, I really just don't feel all that motivated to share it.
#113
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Originally Posted by gernby,Jan 14 2011, 02:02 PM
I didn't perform these tests with a goal of proving that 70mm exhausts don't make gains. I did this test to decide whether I would benefit from buying one! I am on a quest to improve performance, so I hoped there was something to gain! Unfortunately, I have proven that there isn't.
The inference from your topic title is that 70mm exhaust wouldn't benefit any set up and you are showing arrogance by ignoring all the other data that disprove your theory. You are right, everybody else is wrong - or that is what you appear to believe in.
I have dyno proof that showed identical results to that posted by dan_uk above. I sold my VAFC2 because my 70mm header back exhaust leaned out the AFR to render the device useless. This is proof enough for me, but your tests are more conclusive apparently.
I'm not sure what you're really trying to prove because the likes of Spoon, ASM, TIR, HKS - all with considerably more expertise and resources than you - have proven that 70mm exhausts make power.
Anyway, carry on as it looks like you're having fun arguing with yourself. I'm not sure those in the know are taking your findings seriously.
#114
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Originally Posted by punchdrunk,Jan 14 2011, 09:42 AM
All you have proven is that a 70mm exhaust wouldn't benefit you and your set up.
The inference from your topic title is that 70mm exhaust wouldn't benefit any set up and you are showing arrogance by ignoring all the other data that disprove your theory. You are right, everybody else is wrong - or that is what you appear to believe in.
I have dyno proof that showed identical results to that posted by dan_uk above. I sold my VAFC2 because my 70mm header back exhaust leaned out the AFR to render the device useless. This is proof enough for me, but your tests are more conclusive apparently.
I'm not sure what you're really trying to prove because the likes of Spoon, ASM, TIR, HKS - all with considerably more expertise and resources than you - have proven that 70mm exhausts make power.
Anyway, carry on as it looks like you're having fun arguing with yourself. I'm not sure those in the know are taking your findings seriously.
The inference from your topic title is that 70mm exhaust wouldn't benefit any set up and you are showing arrogance by ignoring all the other data that disprove your theory. You are right, everybody else is wrong - or that is what you appear to believe in.
I have dyno proof that showed identical results to that posted by dan_uk above. I sold my VAFC2 because my 70mm header back exhaust leaned out the AFR to render the device useless. This is proof enough for me, but your tests are more conclusive apparently.
I'm not sure what you're really trying to prove because the likes of Spoon, ASM, TIR, HKS - all with considerably more expertise and resources than you - have proven that 70mm exhausts make power.
Anyway, carry on as it looks like you're having fun arguing with yourself. I'm not sure those in the know are taking your findings seriously.
I find it laughable that you guys are criticizing me for simply defending my own data. I've put easily 60 hours into this test. Do you think I did this just to argue with you phuckwholes? I find it even more laughable that you would put more stock in test results from "the likes of Spoon, ASM, TIR, HKS", who PROFIT off of their tests! They would NEVER, EVER publish results like these! If you would sleep better at night to see some bullshit plots, I can whip some up in 10 minutes! Of course, you guys would have LOVED to see those BS plots if they reinforced what you already believed.[/PISSED OFF]
#115
Registered User
Gernby, thank you very much for doing these tests for us. I appreciate you taking the time to do all of this testing, installing and removing a parts, and showing us your results.
#116
Originally Posted by Crackerballer,Jan 14 2011, 03:48 PM
Gernby, great tests and we appreciate your efforts, but you will never be able to please everyone on this board. There are so many people who would rather try to prove you wrong then help you move forward to valid conclusions or ideas for future testing that you would go insane if you worried about them all.
#117
Originally Posted by gernby,Jan 14 2011, 06:46 AM
The eDyno plot shows that there was no SAE correction, and I don't know which version of the soft dyno you are using. Did it have SAE correction, and was it enabled? What other steps were you taking to "standardize" your datalogs for consistency? Same day, similar climate, exact same vehicle weight, same road? Did you retune the car after swapping the exhaust?
As I've mentioned a few times in this thread, the weather conditions here right now are unbelievable for power. If I turn off SAE correction, peak torque jumps 12 ft-lbs and peak power jumps 17 hp.
As I've mentioned a few times in this thread, the weather conditions here right now are unbelievable for power. If I turn off SAE correction, peak torque jumps 12 ft-lbs and peak power jumps 17 hp.
Anyways, I know you are very through in your research and you're doing it for yourself and not to prove anything. These results is what it is, data. Its up to people to use it in a constructive way or not. You are just giving people more information to make their choice. I hope the other people don't deter you from not sharing your results as I and others would like to see them whether its good or bad.
#118
Gernby - great results. Love the thread and what I am gaining from it.
Would you recommend running a 60mm test pipe on an un-tuned 06+ DBW vehicle? I'm a bit worried that the differences made from the pipe would cause damage to the motor (running lean/rich) if not properly tuned. If you want to PM me instead of clutter the thread I'd appreciate it.
Again, thanks for the data - it was a good read and provided very useful to me.
Would you recommend running a 60mm test pipe on an un-tuned 06+ DBW vehicle? I'm a bit worried that the differences made from the pipe would cause damage to the motor (running lean/rich) if not properly tuned. If you want to PM me instead of clutter the thread I'd appreciate it.
Again, thanks for the data - it was a good read and provided very useful to me.
#119
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I decided that since I had so much invested in this test already that it would be worth it to go ahead, and take it back to the dyno where we had the S2000 dyno day last month. The shop owner was able to put my car right on the dyno as soon as I got there, so I don't think heat soak was much of an issue. We did 3 pulls, then when he was almost done unstrapping the car, I realized that I FORGOT to hit the datalog button on the FlashPro! Being a really good guy, the owner said that he wouldn't mind strapping it back down to repeat the 3 runs.
I expected the results to be a bit higher than last time, since it didn't have much time to heat soak. However, they were LOWER (due to the small gasket!) than they were last month! I didn't have a flash drive with me, so the owner is going to email the dynorun files to me. However, here are the peak numbers from last month (with the 60mm test pipe and modified stock exhaust) and today (with the 70mm test pipe and 70mm single).
Last month
4th gear - Peak HP = 223.23 Peak TQ = 157.16
5th gear - Peak HP = 223.48 Peak TQ = 159.13
5th gear - Peak HP = 224.69 Peak TQ = 160.57
Today
4th gear - Peak HP = 219.77 Peak TQ = 154.60
4th gear - Peak HP = 220.58 Peak TQ = 155.26
4th gear - Peak HP = 221.25 Peak TQ = 155.51
- 15 minute "break"
4th gear - Peak HP = 218.33 Peak TQ = 153.67
4th gear - Peak HP = 219.18 Peak TQ = 154.62
4th gear - Peak HP = 220.30 Peak TQ = 154.50
The difference in the car that I believe could have impacted the results in some way are:
1) Different rear tires. Last month I had 265/35-18 on the rear, but today I had 285/30-18.
2) Slightly leaner mixture. It was in the 12.5 range last month and 13 range today with the dyno's wideband in the tailpipe. We ran the 6th run without the wideband sensor, since I was concerned it was blocking the flow of the single exhaust.
3) Weather conditions were almost exactly the same and there was only 0.01 difference in the SAE correction factor.
4) We didn't do any pulls in 5th gear today, so maybe that might have contributed to the slightly lower numbers. However, none of our pulls were better than the one 4th gear pull we did last month either.
5) Small friggin gasket!
I'll post graphs when I get the files from the shop.
BTW, it looks like I'll have a new 70mm Berk Test Pipe to test soon too!!!
I expected the results to be a bit higher than last time, since it didn't have much time to heat soak. However, they were LOWER (due to the small gasket!) than they were last month! I didn't have a flash drive with me, so the owner is going to email the dynorun files to me. However, here are the peak numbers from last month (with the 60mm test pipe and modified stock exhaust) and today (with the 70mm test pipe and 70mm single).
Last month
4th gear - Peak HP = 223.23 Peak TQ = 157.16
5th gear - Peak HP = 223.48 Peak TQ = 159.13
5th gear - Peak HP = 224.69 Peak TQ = 160.57
Today
4th gear - Peak HP = 219.77 Peak TQ = 154.60
4th gear - Peak HP = 220.58 Peak TQ = 155.26
4th gear - Peak HP = 221.25 Peak TQ = 155.51
- 15 minute "break"
4th gear - Peak HP = 218.33 Peak TQ = 153.67
4th gear - Peak HP = 219.18 Peak TQ = 154.62
4th gear - Peak HP = 220.30 Peak TQ = 154.50
The difference in the car that I believe could have impacted the results in some way are:
1) Different rear tires. Last month I had 265/35-18 on the rear, but today I had 285/30-18.
2) Slightly leaner mixture. It was in the 12.5 range last month and 13 range today with the dyno's wideband in the tailpipe. We ran the 6th run without the wideband sensor, since I was concerned it was blocking the flow of the single exhaust.
3) Weather conditions were almost exactly the same and there was only 0.01 difference in the SAE correction factor.
4) We didn't do any pulls in 5th gear today, so maybe that might have contributed to the slightly lower numbers. However, none of our pulls were better than the one 4th gear pull we did last month either.
5) Small friggin gasket!
I'll post graphs when I get the files from the shop.
BTW, it looks like I'll have a new 70mm Berk Test Pipe to test soon too!!!
#120
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Thread Starter
These are available in 720P if yoiu click the button.
Modified stock exhaust with 60mm test pipe
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUjXNGX245E [/media]
70mm single with 70mm Berk test pipe
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5R5u_mJ_Vc [/media]
Modified stock exhaust with 60mm test pipe
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUjXNGX245E [/media]
70mm single with 70mm Berk test pipe
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5R5u_mJ_Vc [/media]