Tein Mono-Flex and Tein Flex Owners...
04-11-2008, 11:31 PM
#1
Tein Mono-Flex and Tein Flex Owners...
Well my next mod are either the Tein Mono-Flex or the Tein Flex coilovers. I was quoted $1,300 out the door on the Flex and $1,590 on the Mono-Flex. It will be my daily driver but alot of spirited driving. Is it worth the extra $290 to pick the mono's up for the extra adjustment? Also is that a good deal for both?
Also can some owners of each post opinions. Thanks
Also can some owners of each post opinions. Thanks
04-12-2008, 05:58 AM
#4
To give you guys a hint on how the Mono Flex setup (US spec) is going to perform.
It might be a little to much if you are not tracking/autoXing.
Definitions:
1) Bounce frequency (Hz)
This refers to the number of times that particular end of the car would oscillate if you pushed up and down on the chassis assuming the damper was not functioning. This frequency is a direct result of the sprung weight of the vehicle, the total spring rate of the suspension (including any bushings) and the leverage or motion ratio of the suspension. Values from 1.1-1.3Hz (cycles per second) are typical for passenger cars.
1.3-1.5Hz for sporty sedan/couples,
1.5-1.8 Hz for sports cars,
above 1.8Hz often is found only on dedicated race cars. And usally dictates use if areo surfaces ( splitters & spoilers for down force)
Use this quantity as a guide to ride comfort. On bumpy roads, higher bounce frequency leads to less traction and a more 'jouncy' ride.
2) Roll Stiffness (lb-ft/deg)
Refers to the resistance of the chassis to roll induced by cornering forces. Because the S2000 has a double wishbone , it does not suffer as greatly from body roll as many other cars.
Some drivers prefer a more taut, controlled chassis and wish to decrease body roll. Adding stiffer sway bars (more properly, stabilizer bars) is a relatively easy and low-impact method to do so. Note that the bounce frequency and roll stiffness are connected in this way: if you increase the spring rate, the roll stiffness and the bounce frequency WILL increase. If you increase the sway bar size(s), the roll stiffness will increase but the bounce frequency will not. In this way, a stabilizer bar can be used to adjust balance on a car when increasing the spring rate is not desirable.
3) Front Roll Couple (FRC)
A quantity used in race car dynamic calculations, use as a simple gauge of the car's 'balance' or tendency to understeer (push, plow, not turn as much as the steering input) or oversteer (rotate, be loose, spin, turn much more than the steering input).
Simply put, the front roll couple refers to how much weight is transferred the front axle when a car goes through a turn, The more weight applied across the front axle, the less easily the car will over-rotate, giving it more high-speed stability, However, this can also make a car feel numb and less responsive (it doesn't turn when you tell it to).
A good guide is to assume the stock FRC is 'neutral', meaning the car will turn just enough when you turn the wheel. In our case there is a bit of over steer.
When choosing spring rates and sway bar sizes, keep the FRC in mind as a sort of 'safety' factor.
As a reference, many autocross or track Miatas have FRCs in the 65-75% range. NASCAR is around 90%. The higher the horsepower, the higher the FRC typically needs to be in order to stabilize the car and allow the driver to use the throttle by or before passing the apex.
-----------------------------
Ok to the numbers (AP2 calculations)
..............Bounce Frequency (F,R).....Roll Stiffness.............Front Roll Couple (FRC)
Stock............1.36,1.68......................3, 093..............................44.6%
Mono FLex....2.30,2.45
..............6,600......................... ......56.8%
Future*....... 2.30,2.45............12,067 ...................... 71.0%
Only change for the future setup is a custom Front sway bar similar to Small Fortune Racing bar ( at max adjustment) and put the Cusco rear sway bar back on. Want to try out the 56.8 FRC to see how close to neutral it is first.
It might be a little to much if you are not tracking/autoXing.
Definitions:
1) Bounce frequency (Hz)
This refers to the number of times that particular end of the car would oscillate if you pushed up and down on the chassis assuming the damper was not functioning. This frequency is a direct result of the sprung weight of the vehicle, the total spring rate of the suspension (including any bushings) and the leverage or motion ratio of the suspension. Values from 1.1-1.3Hz (cycles per second) are typical for passenger cars.
1.3-1.5Hz for sporty sedan/couples,
1.5-1.8 Hz for sports cars,
above 1.8Hz often is found only on dedicated race cars. And usally dictates use if areo surfaces ( splitters & spoilers for down force)
Use this quantity as a guide to ride comfort. On bumpy roads, higher bounce frequency leads to less traction and a more 'jouncy' ride.
2) Roll Stiffness (lb-ft/deg)
Refers to the resistance of the chassis to roll induced by cornering forces. Because the S2000 has a double wishbone , it does not suffer as greatly from body roll as many other cars.
Some drivers prefer a more taut, controlled chassis and wish to decrease body roll. Adding stiffer sway bars (more properly, stabilizer bars) is a relatively easy and low-impact method to do so. Note that the bounce frequency and roll stiffness are connected in this way: if you increase the spring rate, the roll stiffness and the bounce frequency WILL increase. If you increase the sway bar size(s), the roll stiffness will increase but the bounce frequency will not. In this way, a stabilizer bar can be used to adjust balance on a car when increasing the spring rate is not desirable.
3) Front Roll Couple (FRC)
A quantity used in race car dynamic calculations, use as a simple gauge of the car's 'balance' or tendency to understeer (push, plow, not turn as much as the steering input) or oversteer (rotate, be loose, spin, turn much more than the steering input).
Simply put, the front roll couple refers to how much weight is transferred the front axle when a car goes through a turn, The more weight applied across the front axle, the less easily the car will over-rotate, giving it more high-speed stability, However, this can also make a car feel numb and less responsive (it doesn't turn when you tell it to).
A good guide is to assume the stock FRC is 'neutral', meaning the car will turn just enough when you turn the wheel. In our case there is a bit of over steer.
When choosing spring rates and sway bar sizes, keep the FRC in mind as a sort of 'safety' factor.
As a reference, many autocross or track Miatas have FRCs in the 65-75% range. NASCAR is around 90%. The higher the horsepower, the higher the FRC typically needs to be in order to stabilize the car and allow the driver to use the throttle by or before passing the apex.
-----------------------------
Ok to the numbers (AP2 calculations)
..............Bounce Frequency (F,R).....Roll Stiffness.............Front Roll Couple (FRC)
Stock............1.36,1.68......................3, 093..............................44.6%
Mono FLex....2.30,2.45
..............6,600......................... ......56.8%Future*....... 2.30,2.45
............12,067 ...................... 71.0%Only change for the future setup is a custom Front sway bar similar to Small Fortune Racing bar ( at max adjustment) and put the Cusco rear sway bar back on. Want to try out the 56.8 FRC to see how close to neutral it is first.
04-12-2008, 09:28 AM
#5
Originally Posted by JDM_JOE,Apr 12 2008, 03:31 AM
Is it worth the extra $290 to pick the mono's up for the extra adjustment? Also is that a good deal for both?
Also can some owners of each post opinions. Thanks
Also can some owners of each post opinions. Thanks
I am not sure what you mean about the extra adjustment? I believe they both have the same adjustability.
I personally have the Mono Flex on my car with EDFC. I cannot remember how much I paid, but I can tell you that I got them from Steve @ Evolution and it was great to deal with him.
I have the Tein Flex on my MK3 Supra and the one different I noticed is the color (one is green and the Mono is like anodized green) and the Mono have helper springs in the rear shocks.
My only complain is that they do not look to have sufficient travel, they probably have close to 1.75-2". My droop is adjusted to 0" by the way, they are preloaded almost to the max as in there are 3 turns left of preload.
Given the chance to do it again I would go with Motons or another brand, but if you are just driving in town I would get the Monos, they are a good shock.
Joaquin
04-12-2008, 10:49 AM
#7
Originally Posted by MUAY_THAIerd,Apr 12 2008, 02:39 PM
i was just wondering what the difference between the 2 coilovers?
Searching for that on Yahoo brought up the HKS website that has a pretty good explanation:
http://www.hksusa.com/info/?id=2838
Joaquin
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04-12-2008, 05:02 PM
#8
Reading all of this was alittle confusing but basically the mono-flex are to much for daily driving correct? But I do see aggressive canyon runs atleast twice a week and I am hoping to get some classes in to learn the full potential of my S so would the extra $290 be worth it?
04-12-2008, 05:28 PM
#9
Hope my info helped more then it confused you.
Just wanted to show you completely unbiased calculations.
I can run the numbers on the flex on Monday
I do not have the suspension simulator/calculator at home.
Just wanted to show you completely unbiased calculations.
I can run the numbers on the flex on Monday
I do not have the suspension simulator/calculator at home.
04-12-2008, 05:39 PM
#10
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I am also very interested in this discussion, since my first planned upgrade for my ap1 is going to be coilovers. mugenrios2k's info helped clarify some stuff. I'm thinking about getting the type flex and I got a price quote on them a couple of days ago from a local shop and he said something about an extra ~$300 for upper ball mounts. Do you have any idea what these are for?