It looks fast too!
07-14-2012, 11:53 AM
#71
Sorta Off Topic:
Odd that you had problems fitting the tips onto the mid-pipe, mine fit like a glove. Maybe with you having to mess with it in order to get it to fit the sound was knocked off a bit. My q300 w/ test pipe really does sound like stock at idle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQQSRLxLx7o
Would love to hear some sound clips of your mid pipe + q300 tips though
Odd that you had problems fitting the tips onto the mid-pipe, mine fit like a glove. Maybe with you having to mess with it in order to get it to fit the sound was knocked off a bit. My q300 w/ test pipe really does sound like stock at idle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQQSRLxLx7o
Would love to hear some sound clips of your mid pipe + q300 tips though
07-14-2012, 11:59 AM
#72
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Comparing $/HP between NA products and FI products is a moot point. Everyone knows boost nets you more HP per dollar spent, but some people prefer NA builds and others FI. The only drawback I see is the welding part. The Q300 looks like an ideal candidate to mate to this system because of the flange location and bolt on potential. Ideally I would see this being successful if you were able to pair up with Invidia and they sell an Q300 v2.0 that incorporates your system. That would be an attractive package. Even if you had a bolt on variant (as you were mentioning), paying full price for the Invidia only to throw away a part of their system is a tough pill to swallow.
07-14-2012, 12:23 PM
#73
Registered User
Since you'll need to visit a welder, you might as well buy a muffler of your chosing and have the them mate it to the mid-pipe. That's alot cheaper then buying a full out exhaust just to lop off half of it. Since you can get a tanabe muffler/apexi/magnaflow/Vibrant for under 300.
1000 for the mid-pipe + 700 + welding cost for the exhaust is a big bill to swallow. But then again maybe paying top dollar for performing parts isn't your thing either. There are a lot of people who pay 1500-2000 grand for a ASM/Toda/J's/Spoon exhausts.
Cheap HP = FI
NA HP <> cheap
1000 for the mid-pipe + 700 + welding cost for the exhaust is a big bill to swallow. But then again maybe paying top dollar for performing parts isn't your thing either. There are a lot of people who pay 1500-2000 grand for a ASM/Toda/J's/Spoon exhausts.
Cheap HP = FI
NA HP <> cheap
07-14-2012, 02:17 PM
#74
Former Sponsor
Thread Starter
I got my numbers by adding. 700 for invidia q300, 1200 for ems, 1000 for your pipe, 400 for tune, 100 for welding and install. That looks like 3400 to me, even without the ems its over 2g's. As far as the drone. I have the invidia N1 on my turbo car, and a 12in long 3in diameter resonator removed the drone from my exhaust. Maybe not on every car with every exhaust, but it does work. I think your pipe is a great idea if its coupled with an exhaust. Alone its just too expensive. Again, not bashing, just constructive criticism. For comparison's sake. I made 250hp over stock for 6000$ with my turbo kit. Thats 24$ per horsepower gained. If you figure a optimistic 30hp gain for your setup. Thats 109$ per horsepower gained.
07-14-2012, 03:45 PM
#75
Since you'll need to visit a welder, you might as well buy a muffler of your chosing and have the them mate it to the mid-pipe. That's alot cheaper then buying a full out exhaust just to lop off half of it. Since you can get a tanabe muffler/apexi/magnaflow/Vibrant for under 300.
1000 for the mid-pipe + 700 + welding cost for the exhaust is a big bill to swallow. But then again maybe paying top dollar for performing parts isn't your thing either. There are a lot of people who pay 1500-2000 grand for a ASM/Toda/J's/Spoon exhausts.
Cheap HP = FI
NA HP <> cheap
1000 for the mid-pipe + 700 + welding cost for the exhaust is a big bill to swallow. But then again maybe paying top dollar for performing parts isn't your thing either. There are a lot of people who pay 1500-2000 grand for a ASM/Toda/J's/Spoon exhausts.
Cheap HP = FI
NA HP <> cheap
07-14-2012, 04:40 PM
#76
Former Sponsor
Thread Starter
Thanks for you input, but what I really wish everyone would understand about the midpipe is that it isn't just about performance OR drone. The breakthrough is that it has those benefits while being 49 state legal!! The HFC is built in!!! It won't pass a visual inspection, but it will pass a sniffer. It will also eliminate the smell and soot that comes from a test pipe!
07-14-2012, 04:46 PM
#77
Former Sponsor
Thread Starter
I guess I need to quit comparing the performance benefit of my mid-pipe against a test pipe. I should repeat the dyno tests against a conventional HFC. That dyno comparison would be much more persuasive...
07-14-2012, 04:56 PM
#78
Former Sponsor
Thread Starter
If you haven't seen it, here is a quote from a big test I did over a year ago comparing test pipes, HFC's and the OEM cat. Note that the green line below is what I got from the 70mm Berk HFC combined with the 70mm ASM single. With my mid-pipe (with integrated HFC), there would be an even better line than ANY shown below.
It's clear just by looking through the Magnaflow catalyst that Berk uses that it has to be less restrictive than the OEM catalyst. However, I wasn't sure if it would have the same impact on the "resonance" of the exhaust. My hope was that it would not cause that big dip in power when VTEC engaged early. Unfortunately, it didn't eliminate that issue, but it did reduce the magnatude of the dip in power substantially.
Here is a plot showing the stock cat with 70mm ASM single (blue), 70mm HFC with the 70mm ASM single (green), and the 70mm TP with 70mm ASM single (red). All of them have VTEC engaging at 3500 RPMs to demonstrate the resonance issue on the high cam.
This is the AFR plot from the test above.
After a proper tune for the 3 combos, there's still a noticeable loss of torque at ~5K RPMs with the HFC, but it's not that bad. There was no amount of tuning that could make it beneficial to engage VTEC that low with the stock cat, so it seems that an HFC is about "half as good" as a test pipe, assuming you have the correct diameter parts.
Here is the stock cat with 70mm ASM single (red), 70mm HFC with the 70mm ASM single (blue), and the 70mm TP with 70mm ASM single (green). The HFC and TP plots both benefitted from a 3500 RPM VTEC engagement, but the OEM cat needed a 5500 RPM engagement.
Here is a plot showing the stock cat with 70mm ASM single (blue), 70mm HFC with the 70mm ASM single (green), and the 70mm TP with 70mm ASM single (red). All of them have VTEC engaging at 3500 RPMs to demonstrate the resonance issue on the high cam.
This is the AFR plot from the test above.
After a proper tune for the 3 combos, there's still a noticeable loss of torque at ~5K RPMs with the HFC, but it's not that bad. There was no amount of tuning that could make it beneficial to engage VTEC that low with the stock cat, so it seems that an HFC is about "half as good" as a test pipe, assuming you have the correct diameter parts.
Here is the stock cat with 70mm ASM single (red), 70mm HFC with the 70mm ASM single (blue), and the 70mm TP with 70mm ASM single (green). The HFC and TP plots both benefitted from a 3500 RPM VTEC engagement, but the OEM cat needed a 5500 RPM engagement.
07-14-2012, 05:19 PM
#79
07-14-2012, 06:50 PM
#80
Registered User
Originally Posted by iDomN8U' timestamp='1342297393' post='21859988
Since you'll need to visit a welder, you might as well buy a muffler of your chosing and have the them mate it to the mid-pipe. That's alot cheaper then buying a full out exhaust just to lop off half of it. Since you can get a tanabe muffler/apexi/magnaflow/Vibrant for under 300.
1000 for the mid-pipe + 700 + welding cost for the exhaust is a big bill to swallow. But then again maybe paying top dollar for performing parts isn't your thing either. There are a lot of people who pay 1500-2000 grand for a ASM/Toda/J's/Spoon exhausts.
Cheap HP = FI
NA HP <> cheap
1000 for the mid-pipe + 700 + welding cost for the exhaust is a big bill to swallow. But then again maybe paying top dollar for performing parts isn't your thing either. There are a lot of people who pay 1500-2000 grand for a ASM/Toda/J's/Spoon exhausts.
Cheap HP = FI
NA HP <> cheap