kleecker

Searched all Forums for this and came across one good hit about the install of a double diagonal (welded) Hard Dog bar. Great pics and detailed install info. I believe that particular install is a bit over my head.

I will be running 4-6 track days this year (Mid Atlantic area - do not know sactioning organizations yet), the rest street. Has anyone found the standard single bar hoop to be insufficient, as deemed by sanctioning organization? What about the bar with removable diagonal or welded diagonal bar? Since this is a street car first, appearance is somewhat important - I thought the non-diagonal bar was better in appearance than the single diagonal bar, but have no found the right thread, which has member's roll bar pics.....

w.r.t. installation, I'm guessing that bars which retain the stock hoops are easier to install than bars which require stock hoops to be removed - true?

thanks,
Mark

Ajjra

Ironically, I think the bars in which you pull out the interior become easier to install for that very reason.

RStoR

I believe you'll find most of your answers in the RR/AutoX forum. Search hard+dog

Believe the Hard Dog bar is a copy of the Elda design, which met SCCA (the accepted standard for most groups/tracks) standards. Those standards typically specify tubing dimensions, foot plate size, number of bends, etc. I do believe to be SCCA compliant, the bar must have one diagonal bar (bolt-in or welded) that intersects the main hoop. This strengthens the bar in the event of a roll-over. Again, I am not an expert on SCCA/organization rules so take my comments as generalizations only.

I believe you will have to trim the OEM plastics with any bar unless you plan to remove the interior all together. The harness bar location has a lot to do with what you can keep in the car as well from what I understand.

Here is a thread that discusses removable diagonals: https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/845...hl__hard%2Bdog
It seems that most people who get diagonals rarely remove them.

Here are a couple of others that may interest you
Which Bar To Get https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/749...hl__hard%2Bdog
Hard Dog Install https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/603...hl__hard%2Bdog
Hard Dog Seatbelts https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/806...#entry19482906
Which Roll Bar https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/674...hl__hard%2Bdog
Replace Bulkhead https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/850...hl__hard%2Bdog

clarkster009

Good info^

I just ordered one, and I got the welded diagonal, welded lower harness (you want the lower if you want to install harnesses and race seats, the regular harness bar is too high apparently and can be dangerous), with bulkhead brace replacement and welded seat belt tabs (lets you retain stock seatbelts, since OEM bulkhead (with seatbelt attachment) and OEM roll hoops need to be removed) and padding (just since it is still a street car as well, protect my head as much as possible) and it came to just under $1000.

I had been on the fence on whether I wanted to go this route and buy a roll bar or just fix it up in other ways, but people say how great of a track car it is, and the roads around here are so horrible and trafficky with so many police it was enough impetus to try the track route. I figure if I don't like it I can probably still sell the used bar for $700-800 at least.

Apparently it is a pretty big job, but well worth it. Not sure where you live, but I am organizing a local event and found a few willing and able souls to help me install mine one weekend. Hope this helps!

kleecker

Great info - thanks for doing the research for me.

This site has so much info, just weeding through Search results can be a daunting task.

Regarding the search engine itself, is there a posting (or just some basic info) on how to use it most effectively? Such as the use of "+", "-" symbols, etc??? A cheat sheet for the search engine, so to speak....

thanks again.

chuhsi

i'm pretty certain that the single diagonal is scca approved while the double diagonal is not.

installation is easiest when you remove all of the rear interior and don't try to put it back in.

Savedsol

From Tom at Bethania/Hard Dog:

"NOT correct. Permission was granted by the head of SCCA Rally / Solo events to move the diagonal bracing to the rearward brace(s) instead of in the main hoop. The double diagonal bar exceeds the SCCA requirement of one diagonal brace to meet Solo 1/ Time Trial requirements. We have been building roll bars utilizing this design for over 10 years and have thousands of Miata roll bars with double diagonals and a good number of double diagonal S2000 bars running SCCA events.
I've read this in forums about the double diagonals and it is not accurate information. The double diagonal bars are stronger than the single."

dpspeed

False, both SCCA legal...

This is correct. It has more to do with the size of the tubing than the 'diagonals'

SeanSerino

I just ordered my second Hard Dog bar, and this is my advice...

Definitely order the bar with all the option you'll think you'll need, even thinking down the road. I ordered mine without the harness bar or shoulder guide brackets for stock seat belts, because I wasn't thinking ahead. I should receive my new bar (welded diagonal, lowered harness bar, shoulder brackets, +center bar for stock belt reels and padding) this week, and will be swapping the bars out. I wasn't planning on running harnesses/removing interior pieces, but after a few track events, I was set on harnesses/removing interior.

So, make sure you order all the options that you'll need initially, much easier the first time around.


If I were you, I would definitely order it with the shoulder guide brackets (for stock seat belts) and the optional center bar to mount stock seat belt reels (~$175, and you can remove the rear bulkhead). It is so much easier to remove the interior pieces than it is to cut them (cutting/trimming them was by far the worst/most time consuming part of the install). You NEED the shoulder guide brackets if you want to run without the stock roll hoops.


My new set up will be welded diagonal, lowered harness bar, shoulder guide brackets, removable center bar, padding. I will be removing all of the interior parts around the roll bar and the bulkhead itself. This is the best way if you plan on running seats/harnesses for track, and OEM seats/belts for the street. You just swap the seats/belts, and install the center bar for oem belts, and you're done.


Also, the overall install of the bar isn't too bad. Removing interior takes ~1-2 hour, cutting wheel well holes ~1 hour (a cutting wheel makes it so much easier!), drilling/installing/lining up/bolting down bar takes ~1-2 hours, cutting/trimming/installing interior ~3-4 hours (worst part). After doing one install, I think it can easily be done in 3-4 hours total time, if you are not installing/cutting interior pieces, and if you have a cutting wheel to cut the wheel wells. I'm hoping I can swap in my new bar in under 3 hours.

kleecker

What does this option "center bar" do? Looking at Hard Dog's site, it appears to be a option "Stock Seat Belt Reel Mounting Bar - replaces stock bulkhead brace for improved harness clearance - Retrofit, Does Not require removal of roll bar to install". I did not order that option. My hoops are coming out, and this appears to be something you can add-on at any time.................... but what does it exactly do??? Right now, I see me only using the stock seats and belt.