The BETTER Official Hardtop Thread
06-18-2008 | 07:54 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,045
Likes: 45
From: Las Vegas
The BETTER Official Hardtop Thread
The "official hardtop thread" lacks any real info... only opinions...so, here's a thread dedicated more or less to FACTS and some OWNER responses to fitment only.
If someone wants to host some pictures of all the hardtops on a reliable server that won't disappear in a year, I'll include pictures as well. Sucks researching 2006 threads to find all the pictures are gone. For pictures on owners cars... the Official Hardtop Thread in Gallery is a good source.
Post corrections and I'll update accordingly... including any new hardtops (ie. Amuse, etc).
The Basic HOW-TO-INSTALL Thread:
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showt...&#entry11810158
The PDF of HOW-TO-INSTALL OEM hardtop PDF:
http://www.cheaphondaparts.com/shop/instru...ns/aii23531.pdf
Thread on HOW-TO-REPLACE/REMOVE Softtop (Softtop does NOT need to be removed to install any hardtops listed):
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.ph...T&f=1&t=448840
I used the softtop replacement thread to get me started on what I needed to completely remove my softtop. I didn't need a softtop anymore...
For Hardware to Install the hardtop, look at the bottom of this post.
OEM Softtop (updated 6/18/08; 11:30PM PST)
- 60-65lbs (with plastic and no motors - To be confirmed)
- 97lbs (with glass and motors)
- vinyl
- comes with your car, stupid
- usually black
- complete use of trunk
- Most owners say it fits perfectly (10/10 for fitment)
- around $900 for the canvas alone
- total cost installed, around $1500-$2000
OEM Hardtop (updated 6/18/08; 1:30PM PST)
- 47lbs
- aluminum
- comes with rear glass w/ defroster, weather stripping, retainers, etc.
- comes painted with stock colours
- complete use of trunk
- requires OEM hardtop install kit for some years, from hardtopguy.com (or where-ever) - $500
- Most owners say it fits perfectly (10/10 for fitment)
- around $2500
- total cost with install kit, around $2500-$3000
Mugen FRP (updated 6/18/08; 1:30PM PST)
- 44lbs
- fibreglass
- comes with rear plexiglass, weather stripping, retainers, etc.
- most owners say it fits almost perfectly, requiring some adjustment. (9/10 for fitment)
- with trunk fully opened, may touch hardtop
- around $3000
- add paint $200-$500ish
- total cost with install kit, around $3200-$3500
Mugen CF (updated 9/16/08; 11:00AM PST)
- 34lbs
- 1x1 Dry CF
- comes with rear plexiglass, weather stripping, retainers, etc.
- with trunk fully opened, may touch hardtop
- most owners say it fits almost perfectly, requiring some adjustment. (9/10 for fitment)
- total cost, around $6000
Seibon CF (updated 6/26/08; 1:30PM PST)
- 31lbs
- dual-weave wet CF
- styled after the Mugen
- comes with rear plexiglass
- with trunk fully opened, will touch hardtop
- to install, requires seibon install kit from hardtopguy.com (or where-ever) which provides weather-stripping, retainers, etc. - $1700
- most owners say it fits almost perfectly, requiring some adjustment. (9/10 for fitment)
- around $3000
- total cost to have it mounted: $4700
C-Wings CF (updated 6/18/08; 1:30PM PST)
- 34lbs
- single-weave wet CF
- styled after the Mugen
- requires a rear window... unknown where to get.
- with trunk fully opened, may touch hardtop
- requires seibon install kit from hardtopguy.com which provides weather-stripping, retainers, etc. - $1700
- most owners say it fits very well, requiring adjustment. (7/10 for fitment)
- around $2000
- total cost to have it mounted with weather-stripping and window: $4400-$5200
VIS (updated 8/3/2011; 3:00PM PST)
- ??
- FRP
- styled after the Mugen
- glass/lexan comes with a hardtop
- with trunk fully opened, may touch hardtop
- requires seibon install kit from hardtopguy.com which provides weather-stripping, retainers, etc. - $1700
- most owners say it fits well, requiring adjustment. (6/10 for fitment)
- around $1000
- total cost to have it mounted with weather-stripping and window: $1500-$2000
Chaser (updated 8/3/2011; 3:00PM PST)
- ??
- FRP
- styled after the Mugen
- glass/lexan comes with a hardtop
- with trunk fully opened, may touch hardtop
- requires seibon install kit from hardtopguy.com which provides weather-stripping, retainers, etc. - $1700
- most owners say it fits, requiring adjustment. (5/10 for fitment)
- around $1000
- total cost to have it mounted with weather-stripping and window: $1500-$2000
Challenge CF (updated 8/3/2011; 3:00PM PST)
- 29lbs
- 1x1 Dry CF
- styled after OEM hardtop
- comes with rear plexiglass, weather stripping, retainers, etc.
- full use of trunk
- fitment unknown...likely just as good as OEM.
- total cost, around $4000
HARDWARE NEEDS
Note: this largely depends on which hardtop you get and where you get it from. Also, the following list was pulled for a 2004. There are things you do not need if you buy an OEM hardtop
Prices based on June 2008
- front latches (the ones from the softtop will work). Item 8/12 - $79.21 / $69.26
- rear latches Item 13/18 - $90.57/ea
- rear catches Item 19/20 - $175.50 / $204.57
- weather stripping for side windows
Item 9/14 - $101.19/ea
- retainers for weather stripping for side windows Item 8/13 - $61.79/ea
- rear lower weather stripping Item 10 - $181.09
--- OTHER OPTION FOR REAR LOWER SEAL - Autozone - Metro brand Bulb Style seal - ~$20
- rear defroster wiring Item 3 - $31.10
You'll also need the screws to attach the retainer to the hardtop. Those can be found pretty cheaply at a local hardware store or Lowes/Home Depot.
Now, the Hardtopguy's kit consists of:
- rear catchers
- wiring harness
- side brushes
as of right now, it's $500 for 02-07. If you order from HondaAutomotiveParts, you'll save close to $50.
Likewise, the Seibon Hardtop Kit (needed for C-wings, Seibon, etc), it'll cost you $1800...
Order it from HAP, you'll save close to $300-$400. I'm sure there are other places that might be a bit cheaper too, but HAP has always been pretty fast with shipping, and pretty cheap.
Common Questions:
Q. Can the soft top be retained when using the hardtop?
A. Yes. The hardtop sits over the soft top. The OEM hardtop catchers have safety switches to prevent the roof button from being activated with the hardtop installed. There are also retainers that mount to the OEM hard top that push the soft top down to avoid damage
Q. Can the soft top front latches/catchers be used on the hard top if you remove the soft top.
A. Yes, however, the hard top specific latches and catchers are beefier for the added rigidity of the hard top.
Q. What about x hard top?
A. Post the info and I'll do my best to update (or have an admin do it!).
Q. Will the harddog roll bar fit under the hard tops? (More common for roll bar questions... but pertinent here too)
A. Yes. Harddog, cusco, and other mass produced roll bars and cages will fit under all mass produced hard tops (OEM, Seibon, Mugen, etc).
Q. How hard is it to remove the hard top?
A. Depends on how strong you are. OEM is the heaviest and thus, the hardest. The Seibon and (I can imagine the Challenger) are the lightest and thus the easiest. With OEM hardware, you unlatch the front latches (10 seconds), push the seats forward and unlatch the rear latches (20 seconds). The trick is lifting the hard top off the car by yourself. This can be done with some strength, but not recommended. Just ask someone to help lift. For the Spoon style, it's bolted on and takes far longer to remove.
I have ran back to back autocross runs with and without a hardtop. Just had a friend lift it off, put it in the grass near the paddock, and ran. Came back, rebolted it on... ran again. literally takes less than 2 minutes to remove with help.
If someone wants to host some pictures of all the hardtops on a reliable server that won't disappear in a year, I'll include pictures as well. Sucks researching 2006 threads to find all the pictures are gone. For pictures on owners cars... the Official Hardtop Thread in Gallery is a good source.
Post corrections and I'll update accordingly... including any new hardtops (ie. Amuse, etc).
The Basic HOW-TO-INSTALL Thread:
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showt...&#entry11810158
The PDF of HOW-TO-INSTALL OEM hardtop PDF:
http://www.cheaphondaparts.com/shop/instru...ns/aii23531.pdf
Thread on HOW-TO-REPLACE/REMOVE Softtop (Softtop does NOT need to be removed to install any hardtops listed):
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.ph...T&f=1&t=448840
I used the softtop replacement thread to get me started on what I needed to completely remove my softtop. I didn't need a softtop anymore...
For Hardware to Install the hardtop, look at the bottom of this post.
OEM Softtop (updated 6/18/08; 11:30PM PST)
- 60-65lbs (with plastic and no motors - To be confirmed)
- 97lbs (with glass and motors)
- vinyl
- comes with your car, stupid
- usually black
- complete use of trunk
- Most owners say it fits perfectly (10/10 for fitment)
- around $900 for the canvas alone
- total cost installed, around $1500-$2000
OEM Hardtop (updated 6/18/08; 1:30PM PST)
- 47lbs
- aluminum
- comes with rear glass w/ defroster, weather stripping, retainers, etc.
- comes painted with stock colours
- complete use of trunk
- requires OEM hardtop install kit for some years, from hardtopguy.com (or where-ever) - $500
- Most owners say it fits perfectly (10/10 for fitment)
- around $2500
- total cost with install kit, around $2500-$3000
Mugen FRP (updated 6/18/08; 1:30PM PST)
- 44lbs
- fibreglass
- comes with rear plexiglass, weather stripping, retainers, etc.
- most owners say it fits almost perfectly, requiring some adjustment. (9/10 for fitment)
- with trunk fully opened, may touch hardtop
- around $3000
- add paint $200-$500ish
- total cost with install kit, around $3200-$3500
Mugen CF (updated 9/16/08; 11:00AM PST)
- 34lbs
- 1x1 Dry CF
- comes with rear plexiglass, weather stripping, retainers, etc.
- with trunk fully opened, may touch hardtop
- most owners say it fits almost perfectly, requiring some adjustment. (9/10 for fitment)
- total cost, around $6000
Seibon CF (updated 6/26/08; 1:30PM PST)
- 31lbs
- dual-weave wet CF
- styled after the Mugen
- comes with rear plexiglass
- with trunk fully opened, will touch hardtop
- to install, requires seibon install kit from hardtopguy.com (or where-ever) which provides weather-stripping, retainers, etc. - $1700
- most owners say it fits almost perfectly, requiring some adjustment. (9/10 for fitment)
- around $3000
- total cost to have it mounted: $4700
C-Wings CF (updated 6/18/08; 1:30PM PST)
- 34lbs
- single-weave wet CF
- styled after the Mugen
- requires a rear window... unknown where to get.
- with trunk fully opened, may touch hardtop
- requires seibon install kit from hardtopguy.com which provides weather-stripping, retainers, etc. - $1700
- most owners say it fits very well, requiring adjustment. (7/10 for fitment)
- around $2000
- total cost to have it mounted with weather-stripping and window: $4400-$5200
VIS (updated 8/3/2011; 3:00PM PST)
- ??
- FRP
- styled after the Mugen
- glass/lexan comes with a hardtop
- with trunk fully opened, may touch hardtop
- requires seibon install kit from hardtopguy.com which provides weather-stripping, retainers, etc. - $1700
- most owners say it fits well, requiring adjustment. (6/10 for fitment)
- around $1000
- total cost to have it mounted with weather-stripping and window: $1500-$2000
Chaser (updated 8/3/2011; 3:00PM PST)
- ??
- FRP
- styled after the Mugen
- glass/lexan comes with a hardtop
- with trunk fully opened, may touch hardtop
- requires seibon install kit from hardtopguy.com which provides weather-stripping, retainers, etc. - $1700
- most owners say it fits, requiring adjustment. (5/10 for fitment)
- around $1000
- total cost to have it mounted with weather-stripping and window: $1500-$2000
Challenge CF (updated 8/3/2011; 3:00PM PST)
- 29lbs
- 1x1 Dry CF
- styled after OEM hardtop
- comes with rear plexiglass, weather stripping, retainers, etc.
- full use of trunk
- fitment unknown...likely just as good as OEM.
- total cost, around $4000
HARDWARE NEEDS
Note: this largely depends on which hardtop you get and where you get it from. Also, the following list was pulled for a 2004. There are things you do not need if you buy an OEM hardtop
Prices based on June 2008
- front latches (the ones from the softtop will work). Item 8/12 - $79.21 / $69.26
- rear latches Item 13/18 - $90.57/ea
- rear catches Item 19/20 - $175.50 / $204.57
- weather stripping for side windows
Item 9/14 - $101.19/ea
- retainers for weather stripping for side windows Item 8/13 - $61.79/ea
- rear lower weather stripping Item 10 - $181.09
--- OTHER OPTION FOR REAR LOWER SEAL - Autozone - Metro brand Bulb Style seal - ~$20
- rear defroster wiring Item 3 - $31.10
You'll also need the screws to attach the retainer to the hardtop. Those can be found pretty cheaply at a local hardware store or Lowes/Home Depot.
Now, the Hardtopguy's kit consists of:
- rear catchers
- wiring harness
- side brushes
as of right now, it's $500 for 02-07. If you order from HondaAutomotiveParts, you'll save close to $50.
Likewise, the Seibon Hardtop Kit (needed for C-wings, Seibon, etc), it'll cost you $1800...
Order it from HAP, you'll save close to $300-$400. I'm sure there are other places that might be a bit cheaper too, but HAP has always been pretty fast with shipping, and pretty cheap.
Common Questions:
Q. Can the soft top be retained when using the hardtop?
A. Yes. The hardtop sits over the soft top. The OEM hardtop catchers have safety switches to prevent the roof button from being activated with the hardtop installed. There are also retainers that mount to the OEM hard top that push the soft top down to avoid damage
Q. Can the soft top front latches/catchers be used on the hard top if you remove the soft top.
A. Yes, however, the hard top specific latches and catchers are beefier for the added rigidity of the hard top.
Q. What about x hard top?
A. Post the info and I'll do my best to update (or have an admin do it!).
Q. Will the harddog roll bar fit under the hard tops? (More common for roll bar questions... but pertinent here too)
A. Yes. Harddog, cusco, and other mass produced roll bars and cages will fit under all mass produced hard tops (OEM, Seibon, Mugen, etc).
Q. How hard is it to remove the hard top?
A. Depends on how strong you are. OEM is the heaviest and thus, the hardest. The Seibon and (I can imagine the Challenger) are the lightest and thus the easiest. With OEM hardware, you unlatch the front latches (10 seconds), push the seats forward and unlatch the rear latches (20 seconds). The trick is lifting the hard top off the car by yourself. This can be done with some strength, but not recommended. Just ask someone to help lift. For the Spoon style, it's bolted on and takes far longer to remove.
I have ran back to back autocross runs with and without a hardtop. Just had a friend lift it off, put it in the grass near the paddock, and ran. Came back, rebolted it on... ran again. literally takes less than 2 minutes to remove with help.
06-18-2008 | 09:35 AM
#3
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,045
Likes: 45
From: Las Vegas
Originally Posted by petawabit,Jun 18 2008, 08:07 AM
mugen is dry carbon just fyi
06-18-2008 | 09:41 AM
#5
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,433
Likes: 0
From: california
Originally Posted by Driven,Jun 18 2008, 08:35 AM
can someone verify... Out of about 20 threads people saying mugen is wet CF, and this being the 1st person saying its dry CF....rather have it right, then change it to what sum1 "thinks" it is
06-18-2008 | 09:58 AM
#7
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,045
Likes: 45
From: Las Vegas
Originally Posted by petawabit,Jun 18 2008, 08:41 AM
I don't "think" I "know"
Originally Posted by shotiable,Jun 18 2008, 08:42 AM
this some good info! i cant believe the seibon HT is lighter than mugen
Trending Topics
06-18-2008 | 10:02 AM
#9
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,045
Likes: 45
From: Las Vegas
Softtop has been said to weigh anywhere between 30-40lbs. I'm pulling my tonight and will be able to weigh... but, since this is a "hardtop" thread, not sure if it's pertinent... but i'll toss it up there when I know for sure.
