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Originally Posted by spicyhands,Jul 18 2007, 07:58 AM
Im no expert but gears dont add power, just move around the shift points to get into the power quicker.
So wouldnt a stock S2000 and a geared one run the same time in the 1/4 mile or eventually catch up after 80-100mph?
After 100MPH and after the 1/4mi run is over the stock geared S2k would catch up. It would also have a better theoretical top end.
With aftermarket gearing you WILL get to a certian speed faster than a stock geared car.
Thank you, your post really help me to go with 4.77 KIA gear on my AP2 and i will never regret it, i take a ride from a friend with 4.44 on AP2 and it definitely never pull like the 4.77, its another world. The 4.77 on AP2 is the best bang of the buck, it pull terribly harder on all the gears especially on the 1 st gear, its unbelievable how the 1 st is fast, it snap like a slingshot, you feel hangry when you snap the throttle! As for the rpm, 5-6 is lower than on AP1, 4600-4700rpm at 120km/h and for 1 to 4, its very acceptable but i feel more confortable with my 75a motor/transmission bushings to be in 5th in city drive, same thing with my friend with same set-up but with 4.44.
With the 4.44, you are always 300-400 lower in rpm (4300rpm at 120km/h vs stock 4.10 at 4000rpm). As for my speedo, i really need yellow box since my speedo is off 10km/h at 65km/h and 20km/h at 120km/h.
Total cost for me: only 685$ cad! Since my car only have 75000km, i save all my bearings, only change 3 seals, crush sleeve and pinion nut.
My AP2 4.77 accelrate faster than all video i find on youtube,i dont know why! The AP2 4.77 youtube vieod before and after gear change (4.10 first and 4.77 after) is to me, really not representative to the acceleration change on an AP2, i dont no why but in reality, the acceleration jump is a lot better to what i see in this video (my others modifications include SKUNK2 exhaust with test pipe/w/cell fix, colder iridium plugs,K&N FIPK, HONDATA intake gasket, 75A INNOVATIVE mounts and EXCEDIUM differential collars.
I really apreciate your post that help me to make the moove since its really hard to find review from AP2 owners with 4.77 because you need to ride it on AP2, not AP1 to give the good feedback with this set-up!
Last, the KIA have absolutely no whine if backlash is ok (as SKUDDYDAD tell, .003 to .003.5 is perfect), as for mpg, i need to make more rides to be sure but it seem to be more worst than what i have seen on others post i have read.
Originally Posted by Mocky
I finally have some time to write my impressions on 2 recent upgrades that I made to my car. 4.77 gears and Competition Clutch package. I'm not an expert so please don't expect this to be a technical review. If you have a specific technical question, I'll do my best to answer them (or find someone who can answer them for me)
4.77 Gears.
For many years, I have heard that gears are the best bang for the buck mod you can make on an s2000. I didn't understand how gears could make the car faster, so I was always interested, but skeptical. Recently, I received an offer to purchase a set of 4.77 gears from Joe at Ganley Honda and see firsthand what sort of difference they make.
I dropped off my car last Wednesday and had Jim install them for me. Jim has worked on many s2000s and has probably installed the majority of the final drive gears that are out there.
First off impression: Wow.....
The car feels like it pulls much stronger, and the power is instant....highway passing doesn't require downshifting either. It's almost as if the motor was restricted and the gears opened up its potential. I am not an engineer or a car expert so I still don't completely understand how the car is so much quicker, but the difference is definitely noticeable.
Two concerns that I had.
Many people mentioned to me about gear whine. I'm not quite sure what it sounds like but I haven't heard anything different with my car since putting the gears in. I have put 500+ miles on the car since Thursday and have noticed no audible difference.
I was also told that the revs are too high for highway cruising. At 80~85mph, it's in the neighborhood of 4700 rpms...So it's around 800 rpms higher than with regular gears. I'm going down to Columbus (2 hour drive) this week, and Deal's Gap for Wake the Dragon (9 hour drive) so I'll see if it's something that will bother me. So far, it hasn't.. just all smiles!
Competition Clutch, pressure plate, clutch and flywheel package.
First impression: I stalled
The thing that appealed to me was the promise that it would have the same pedal feel as an oem clutch. I've driven other cars with upgraded clutch package and felt like I just had a workout. This package is definitely more firm than the AP2 pedal (which I'm not a fan of), and around the same as the AP1 feel (which I like). The engagement point is a little earlier than stock and once it grabs you can definitely tell that you have something with more meat. It is a firm solid feeling. The flywheel (with the gears), makes the car get up to redline very quickly and just feels awesome.
The one thing I did notice was the clutch buzz as I decelerate... it's minor, but it definitely is there.. I think it's a small price to pay for what I got out of it, but I did wonder what it was when I first heard it.
Overall, these are two solid modifications that I am very pleased with. It feels like a totally different beast and would definitely recommend them to anyone who is looking to open up the potential of their car. Special thanks to Joe and the crew at Ganley Honda for putting this all together for me (and having me blow up their computer with PMs about the progress).
1. I have asked much about this on another site, and have been intrigued by the "power" of the 4.77, and have been advised that the 4.56 is a better match, so I find your input to be enlightening.
2. I'm wondering what the downside of not upgrading the clutch would be, but sticking with stock with the 4.77.
3. I even had an offer to put in the 4.77, and if I was disappointed, would reverse it, not charge. Hard to pass up.
4. At the time my 04 had only about 20k miles on it, so swapping out for a pumkin of unknown, or at least much more mileage and use/abuse was too formindable for me.
5. It is an mod that I probably would do if convenient; I wish I could drive one like you have done to see the difference.
6. Something that gives me pause, is that some that have done it, when they get a different S, they don't bother to do it over, which makes me think that while it is a refreshing change, and great fun, it does not turn your life aright for the $1500ish that it would cost.
7. Keep us abreast of your continued enjoyment!
I never have the chance to drive this set-up before install since its a rare set-up on AP2 and i need to do it to see if its good or not but, from my experience before and after, i think that lots of people said that is a bad set-up but never ride an AP2 WITH 4.77. I find few post form people that have this set-up on AP2 and it is as positive as for me. I never ride an AP1 with 4.77 but if its a bad set-up for AP2 because too short gears, i dont agree with this since 5 and 6th gears are longer on AP2 and it give ''only'' loll 4600rpm in 6th at 120km/h vs AP1 5000rpm. As for 1 to 4 gears, its up to you but if you like shifting your car, its a great pleasure and the s2k is one of the most pleasant car to shift, your pleasure is juste more intense!
Before i install my gear, i having chance to swap diff with other s2k owner with 4.56 gear but my car is low km and perfect shape and i fear to have problem from abused or wrong diff, its the reason i decide to install gear in my diff and.
Anyway, the 4.77 is the faster gear in the AP1 AND AP2
And another important point for me, NO whine and cheap price (i paid 100$ for complete KIA diff!)
I think that the gear choice is a personal choice, for me, the 4.44 is not the big change that i want and the 4.77 yes but if you want to go FI or if you drive most of the time on freeway, 4.77 isnt a good choice for me, but i will stay N/A, never race it and mostly city drive, for me, its the cherry on the cake!
Everything you asked for is in the original post, here I will get my spoon and feed you the answers to your questions, to everyone else please READ the OP!!!!
Resized to 54% (was 1200 x 900) - Click image to enlarge
Originally Posted by doddg
1. I have asked much about this on another site, and have been intrigued by the "power" of the 4.77, and have been advised that the 4.56 is a better match, so I find your input to be enlightening.
2. I'm wondering what the downside of not upgrading the clutch would be, but sticking with stock with the 4.77.
3. I even had an offer to put in the 4.77, and if I was disappointed, would reverse it, not charge. Hard to pass up.
4. At the time my 04 had only about 20k miles on it, so swapping out for a pumkin of unknown, or at least much more mileage and use/abuse was too formindable for me.
5. It is an mod that I probably would do if convenient; I wish I could drive one like you have done to see the difference.
6. Something that gives me pause, is that some that have done it, when they get a different S, they don't bother to do it over, which makes me think that while it is a refreshing change, and great fun, it does not turn your life aright for the $1500ish that it would cost.
7. Keep us abreast of your continued enjoyment!
1. Good feedback.
2. All I care about is what it does in low in torque in gears 1-3, since mine is a dd, and no fun can be had in upper gears due to speed limits, although, dropping from 6th to 4th on the freeway for a quick Vtec engagement is fun if the lanes are clear, but dangerous with police abounding.
3. I am a mpg nut, I enjoy minute detail in all my vehicles for decades (MCs included), of which I have come under some criticism on another site since the S should not be held to such standards, ha!
4. But, actually, it is one of the things I enjoy about the S, because of the lack of low end torque, it will give you good mpg it you keep your foot out of Vtec.
5. I have gotten 30 mpg on the highway, but rarely get to use the car for traveling; I have one of those wives who think traveling in our luxury family sedan (a Corolla, ha!) is more comfortable to travel in to visit the grandkids in TN than a space-age sports car (it is to me, I'm old, ha!). Of course, there is the issue of luggage, and my wife isn't going to travel light, or let me take the top down anyway. I can't trade her in, I have grown attached to her in the past 4 decades, so what is a man supposed to do, ha!
6. I get 25 mpg goint back and forth to work, and even though it is not the 35 mpg I got in the del sol, it is perfectly acceptable for a sports car, better than the Jeep at 18 mpg!
7. I have not heard anything definitive about the loss the mpg is with the 4.77, since "normal" people don't keep meticulous recordson mpg, but I'm assuming a 2 mpg loss, maybe 3, which would be tough for me since I mostly use my car as a work car (which, pooling the money from MCs and a work car, helps justify having 2-3 times more money tied up than normal in my work car. Ok, only a little, but the wife went along with it just to get rid of the MC, and the kids are gone!)
8. Since I do enjoy my mpg, and I like a lower cruising rpm on the highway (which is not how I use the car, mostly 10-15 minutes on freeway total in a day), these are reasons I don't actively break done the barriers to get the 4.77.
9. Hardtopguy is a few hours drive away in OH for me in IN, and if I did get it done, I would probably go early in the morning for him to swap out, since it is a day's job. I'd rather keep my pumkin and have it upgraded, though, just to insure my well-treated diff. (bought with -9k miles 2.5 yrs. ago, now with 40k miles).
I checked this page yesterday but I dont know how to figure out the cruising speeds, This just lists the speed at max RPM's
I might be making it harder than it is, but forgive me I dont know how to figure the info out.
1. Sweet manipulative; really enjoyed putting in the numbers, and if I did something, according to what I saw, I would go for the greatest gain and get the 4.77, not the 4.56, since there appears to be just a subtle change with them, and I would want to maximize the benefit of a gear change.
Once you decide to go with the gears, make sure you have someone that has lots of experience with gear installation do the work. I had Ganley Honda do mine since the mechanic has had years of doing work on s2000s and I couldn't beat the deal.
i think hardtopguy himself lives somewhere in the Mid-A
07-18-2007, 11:26 AM
I had Ganley Honda do mine since the mechanic has had years of doing work on s2000s and I couldn't beat the deal.
