Official Gun Thread
12-11-2010, 01:57 AM
#181
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think you are missing my point. I believe above all else shot placement and the amount of rounds on target are the key. With a 9mm I can shoot faster, more accurately, and get more rounds on target. This is of course my personal prefernce. If for some odd reason you personally shoot best with a .357 then by all means utilize that caliber. I am going to post an exert from someone who knows a bit more on the subject then myself.
EDIT: Take it easy bud, I have a .45 M&P as well. Perhaps novice was the wrong choice of words. The point is that most new people in the gun world automatically assume that bigger is better. This is not always the case, as there are many other factors. We all know there are many ways to skin a cat, what it comes down to is what works for you.
Back on topic, Pic thread:
1. ALL handgun rounds are ballistically inefficient when compared to rifle calibers.
2. Not all tissue is the same, or are all wound cavities. Most tissue is elastic, which means that the temporary wound cavity in elastic tissue is just that. Temporary. It springs back with no real effect. Inelastic tissue like the liver can be severely damaged. But most of the time, it is the permanent wound channel that matters. That is the tunnel of chewed up tissue actually impacted by the bullet.
3. Bullet shape effects the size of the permanent wound channel. A round nosed or plugged JHP creates a smaller, permanent wound channel that a different bullet shape such as a JHP that actually opens up.
4. Any bullet that does not intersect the central nervous system, i.e. spinal cord or brain, depends on exsanguination, i.e. blood loss. Bleed them out enough, the blood pressure drops and they pass out, quit, die.
5. The difference in permanent wound channel diameter between 9mm and .40 is only 1-3mm. Add another millimeter or so for .45. Due to variations in anatomy, and assuming sufficient penetration, it is luck as to whether or not that bullet cuts a major blood vessel and causes a rapid blood loss.
6. The crucial factors are a) sufficient penetration to get past intervening obstacles, i.e. clothing, limbs, fat, etc, and reach vital organs in the thoracic cavity; b) Bullet placement, i.e. a shot that hits the thoracic cavity (center), maximizing the potential to ventilate major blood vessels and organs; and c) a bullet shape that maximmizes the size of the permanent wound channel.
If you have a bullet in any caliber that opens up and penetrates deep enough (most of the time), then the crucial variable is your accuracy and the number of holes you put in the subject. He's already posted tested loads that perform well in the common calibers, 9mm, .40, .45. Pick a caliber and a platform you can shoot well (assuming you get that choice). Bear in mind that if your magazine holds 7 rounds instead of 15 or more, your reloading skills will get used more so they better be good.
2. Not all tissue is the same, or are all wound cavities. Most tissue is elastic, which means that the temporary wound cavity in elastic tissue is just that. Temporary. It springs back with no real effect. Inelastic tissue like the liver can be severely damaged. But most of the time, it is the permanent wound channel that matters. That is the tunnel of chewed up tissue actually impacted by the bullet.
3. Bullet shape effects the size of the permanent wound channel. A round nosed or plugged JHP creates a smaller, permanent wound channel that a different bullet shape such as a JHP that actually opens up.
4. Any bullet that does not intersect the central nervous system, i.e. spinal cord or brain, depends on exsanguination, i.e. blood loss. Bleed them out enough, the blood pressure drops and they pass out, quit, die.
5. The difference in permanent wound channel diameter between 9mm and .40 is only 1-3mm. Add another millimeter or so for .45. Due to variations in anatomy, and assuming sufficient penetration, it is luck as to whether or not that bullet cuts a major blood vessel and causes a rapid blood loss.
6. The crucial factors are a) sufficient penetration to get past intervening obstacles, i.e. clothing, limbs, fat, etc, and reach vital organs in the thoracic cavity; b) Bullet placement, i.e. a shot that hits the thoracic cavity (center), maximizing the potential to ventilate major blood vessels and organs; and c) a bullet shape that maximmizes the size of the permanent wound channel.
If you have a bullet in any caliber that opens up and penetrates deep enough (most of the time), then the crucial variable is your accuracy and the number of holes you put in the subject. He's already posted tested loads that perform well in the common calibers, 9mm, .40, .45. Pick a caliber and a platform you can shoot well (assuming you get that choice). Bear in mind that if your magazine holds 7 rounds instead of 15 or more, your reloading skills will get used more so they better be good.
Back on topic, Pic thread:
12-11-2010, 02:16 AM
#183
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks, it is actually an LWRC upper from back when they used to take custom orders. Build list is as follows:
Upper:
LWRCi M6A2 W/ VLTOR MUR + 14.5" Colt lightweight barrel
Battlecomp 1.5
VTAC Surefire (KX2C+E series body+UE07 tailcap) in LaRue mount w/ tapeswitch
Aimpoint T1 in LaRue Tall mount
Troy BUIS with XS Tritium stripe
Tangodown Scar panels x3
Magpul AFG
Dieter CQD sling mount
AN/PEQ15 w/ tapeswitch
BCM MOD4 CH
Lower:
YHM w/ RRA LPK
BC ambi selector
BCM milspec reciever extension + Chrome silicon spring + H1 buffer
Magpul CTR
Magpul ASAP
Magpul Enhanced Trigger guard
Magpul BAD
Magpul MIAD
Upper:
LWRCi M6A2 W/ VLTOR MUR + 14.5" Colt lightweight barrel
Battlecomp 1.5
VTAC Surefire (KX2C+E series body+UE07 tailcap) in LaRue mount w/ tapeswitch
Aimpoint T1 in LaRue Tall mount
Troy BUIS with XS Tritium stripe
Tangodown Scar panels x3
Magpul AFG
Dieter CQD sling mount
AN/PEQ15 w/ tapeswitch
BCM MOD4 CH
Lower:
YHM w/ RRA LPK
BC ambi selector
BCM milspec reciever extension + Chrome silicon spring + H1 buffer
Magpul CTR
Magpul ASAP
Magpul Enhanced Trigger guard
Magpul BAD
Magpul MIAD
12-11-2010, 02:21 AM
#184
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 984
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
12-11-2010, 01:27 PM
#186
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JDM_JOE
I just noticed you're a Cali resident. In which case the argument for higher round capacity is not relevant. However, for your sake, if you do decide to buy a 9mm... I would bulk order steel-cased Russian ammo ASAP. I read this the other day:
"Just a note for Californians : Your new law AB962 is going into effect at the end of January 2011. This law will stop all your ordering of handgun ammo from out of state, will require all handgun ammo sales to be face-to-face, and will require a thumbprint at each sale, which is kept in a state database. Your only options now are to stock up now on enough handgun ammo to last you forever, or repeal it!!"
I just noticed you're a Cali resident. In which case the argument for higher round capacity is not relevant. However, for your sake, if you do decide to buy a 9mm... I would bulk order steel-cased Russian ammo ASAP. I read this the other day:
"Just a note for Californians : Your new law AB962 is going into effect at the end of January 2011. This law will stop all your ordering of handgun ammo from out of state, will require all handgun ammo sales to be face-to-face, and will require a thumbprint at each sale, which is kept in a state database. Your only options now are to stock up now on enough handgun ammo to last you forever, or repeal it!!"
12-11-2010, 08:19 PM
#188
Originally Posted by dirtykoala,Dec 11 2010, 03:21 AM
my gun 