My complete 1000whp build
#1
My complete 1000whp build
Hey everyone!
I decided to start a thread on my build this year. This will be a COMPLETE build from start to finish with EVERY single detail I can remember to include. My goal is to make this thread so thorough that someone else will be able to replicate and take any information they want from it. If there's one thing I've noticed while doing such a build is the lack of information and support there is to make a real 1000whp.
A little background about myself, my car, and the history I have with it. I'm currently a senior finishing up my electrical engineering degree, and thus you will see that all of the wiring and anything electrical will be done by me from scratch. My car is a 2002 Spa Yellow car that I bought in June of 2019 completely stock. Shorty after I bought it I installed the popular ACT clutch with OEM disc combo, put the car on ethanol (yes while N/A), and shot a 75 dry shot of nitrous using some 1000cc injectors and a walbro 450. Right after that summer ended I decided to boost the car. I had MANY issues as this was my first time doing a project like this but I learned a lot of valuable information. The car ended up making 617whp stock motor with a 6266 gen 2 on around 26psi. The s2000 is very fast at over 600whp and I was more than satisfied with it. Now the winter of 2020/21 came around and of course as many of you know the itch for more power doesn't stop so I decided to fully build the car. This is my idea of a COMPLETE build with very little expense spared anywhere.
Motor: InlinePro Sleeves with Oring
ILP headstuds
ILP Xtreme Duty Rods with the 7/16 bolt
AP2 F22c crank for extra displacement with no disadvantages when fully built. You can still rev to over 9000rpm...
ILP stage 2.5x head which includes: Inconel 6.5mm exhaust vales, Stainless intake valves, dual valve springs, valve guides
Stock cams
Stock port
For the pistons I wanted to do some pretty unique stuff so they're pretty fancy and I believe to be one of a kind for this car
CP Pistons: 10.5:1 compression, vertical gas ports, dome coating, skirt coating, heavy duty wrist pin with DLC coating
I will be building the entire motor myself and will continue to update this thread with all my specs and my process.
Magnus 8 injector manifold
Engine management... This is another are that many people cheap out on/aren't comfortable with doing what's described below. I personally went with a MoTeC m150 and a MoTeC c127 dash so I KNOW that this ECU will never be the limiting factor of my build. There's a reason why many of the fastest cars on the planet run MoTeC... The M1 series ECU is state of the art with logging and traction control. That was one of the biggest selling points for me. My retailer described MoTeC traction control is like Windows 10 and all others are like Windows 98 lol. I went with the M150 over the M130 because I wanted to make sure I never ran out of inputs/outputs in my ECU. Would a m130 work? I'm sure it would, but this is my build and I'm doing it how I want. I will be constructing the wiring harness myself and completely rewiring anything that is required. Below there will be multiple well documented spreadsheets of the wiring harness connections and what not. I'll also be retrofitting the C127 dash into my car. I can include Solidworks photos, models, and files aswell. I will have a seperate post where I describe my sensors and why I chose what I did.
Turbo kit:
Most likely will be running a Shmuck build hotside kit with everything coming out the hood. T4 divided
The intercooler and intercooler piping I have been working on in Solidworks. I am planning on using a Garrett Core IC as people say they are the most thermally efficient on the market, although the limited sizing might make me choose otherwise.
2 tial 50mm BOV
2 tial 38mm gates
PTE 6875 gen 2 turbo (for now) Precision turbos make power. Plain and simple. I don't care if you think they're not reliable. The turbo makes more power than anything else in its size range. Maybe the new Xonas are catching up but I stand by precision.
Drivetrain: Recently XPerformance release their brand new DCT conversion kit. This is extremely appealing and I will most likely end up using this. The F80/82 M3/4/5 trans has been proven to hold over 700lb/ft of tq at the wheels. That in a 4 banger is well over 1000whp. The complete swap is right around $5000 making it WAY WAY WAYYYY more affordable than a $15,000 quaife or samsonas. Now I have nothing against either, but after you include the cost of the clutch slipper, twin/triple disc, trans, bell housing, etc etc you really are looking at a $15,000 swap. As a college kid who lives at home that is INSANE. This means I will be rewiring the trans mechatronics unit to work with an HTG trans controller. The trans controller communicates via CAN with the MoTeC. I need to confirm with my tuner about this.
For the rear end I think the consensus is the ILP Ford 8.8 kit with like 3.73 gears. I'll have to do some more research on this aspect though.
Fueling: So brushed fuel pumps have come a long way from where they used to be. I personally cannot justify spending $1200 on a electric fuel pump that's gonna flow damn near the same as 2 Walbro 525s in tank. Feed will be a -10 with return being a -8. Never had any issues using eBay lines and fittings. No way I'm spending $500 on fittings that are the same exact thing. Don't believe they're the same? Order one off eBay and give one to a buddy to look at. They wont be able to tell the difference between them. I NEVER had any leakage issues either. Fuel will be normal ethanol, but when someone needs the sauce I'll have an Ignite Red tune as well.
Like I said, I will be consistently updating this thread. All of my Google Drive Sheets are here if anyone wants to take a look. Please feel free to ask questions and I'd love to answer them!
Wiring Harness (WIP):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
Total Cost (WIP):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
Here's some quick prototyping I did today with mounting the C127 Dash. Simple first step out of cardboard. Made my measurements and will be 3D printing sometime this week:
C127 Solidworks with Backplate
You can see here how I made the plate fully adjustable using slots instead of holes. This lets me find a good position for the display, mark the backplate, and then print a second one with holes instead of slots for a more solid mount. The dash will need to be cut to fit this display.
I decided to start a thread on my build this year. This will be a COMPLETE build from start to finish with EVERY single detail I can remember to include. My goal is to make this thread so thorough that someone else will be able to replicate and take any information they want from it. If there's one thing I've noticed while doing such a build is the lack of information and support there is to make a real 1000whp.
A little background about myself, my car, and the history I have with it. I'm currently a senior finishing up my electrical engineering degree, and thus you will see that all of the wiring and anything electrical will be done by me from scratch. My car is a 2002 Spa Yellow car that I bought in June of 2019 completely stock. Shorty after I bought it I installed the popular ACT clutch with OEM disc combo, put the car on ethanol (yes while N/A), and shot a 75 dry shot of nitrous using some 1000cc injectors and a walbro 450. Right after that summer ended I decided to boost the car. I had MANY issues as this was my first time doing a project like this but I learned a lot of valuable information. The car ended up making 617whp stock motor with a 6266 gen 2 on around 26psi. The s2000 is very fast at over 600whp and I was more than satisfied with it. Now the winter of 2020/21 came around and of course as many of you know the itch for more power doesn't stop so I decided to fully build the car. This is my idea of a COMPLETE build with very little expense spared anywhere.
Motor: InlinePro Sleeves with Oring
ILP headstuds
ILP Xtreme Duty Rods with the 7/16 bolt
AP2 F22c crank for extra displacement with no disadvantages when fully built. You can still rev to over 9000rpm...
ILP stage 2.5x head which includes: Inconel 6.5mm exhaust vales, Stainless intake valves, dual valve springs, valve guides
Stock cams
Stock port
For the pistons I wanted to do some pretty unique stuff so they're pretty fancy and I believe to be one of a kind for this car
CP Pistons: 10.5:1 compression, vertical gas ports, dome coating, skirt coating, heavy duty wrist pin with DLC coating
I will be building the entire motor myself and will continue to update this thread with all my specs and my process.
Magnus 8 injector manifold
Engine management... This is another are that many people cheap out on/aren't comfortable with doing what's described below. I personally went with a MoTeC m150 and a MoTeC c127 dash so I KNOW that this ECU will never be the limiting factor of my build. There's a reason why many of the fastest cars on the planet run MoTeC... The M1 series ECU is state of the art with logging and traction control. That was one of the biggest selling points for me. My retailer described MoTeC traction control is like Windows 10 and all others are like Windows 98 lol. I went with the M150 over the M130 because I wanted to make sure I never ran out of inputs/outputs in my ECU. Would a m130 work? I'm sure it would, but this is my build and I'm doing it how I want. I will be constructing the wiring harness myself and completely rewiring anything that is required. Below there will be multiple well documented spreadsheets of the wiring harness connections and what not. I'll also be retrofitting the C127 dash into my car. I can include Solidworks photos, models, and files aswell. I will have a seperate post where I describe my sensors and why I chose what I did.
Turbo kit:
Most likely will be running a Shmuck build hotside kit with everything coming out the hood. T4 divided
The intercooler and intercooler piping I have been working on in Solidworks. I am planning on using a Garrett Core IC as people say they are the most thermally efficient on the market, although the limited sizing might make me choose otherwise.
2 tial 50mm BOV
2 tial 38mm gates
PTE 6875 gen 2 turbo (for now) Precision turbos make power. Plain and simple. I don't care if you think they're not reliable. The turbo makes more power than anything else in its size range. Maybe the new Xonas are catching up but I stand by precision.
Drivetrain: Recently XPerformance release their brand new DCT conversion kit. This is extremely appealing and I will most likely end up using this. The F80/82 M3/4/5 trans has been proven to hold over 700lb/ft of tq at the wheels. That in a 4 banger is well over 1000whp. The complete swap is right around $5000 making it WAY WAY WAYYYY more affordable than a $15,000 quaife or samsonas. Now I have nothing against either, but after you include the cost of the clutch slipper, twin/triple disc, trans, bell housing, etc etc you really are looking at a $15,000 swap. As a college kid who lives at home that is INSANE. This means I will be rewiring the trans mechatronics unit to work with an HTG trans controller. The trans controller communicates via CAN with the MoTeC. I need to confirm with my tuner about this.
For the rear end I think the consensus is the ILP Ford 8.8 kit with like 3.73 gears. I'll have to do some more research on this aspect though.
Fueling: So brushed fuel pumps have come a long way from where they used to be. I personally cannot justify spending $1200 on a electric fuel pump that's gonna flow damn near the same as 2 Walbro 525s in tank. Feed will be a -10 with return being a -8. Never had any issues using eBay lines and fittings. No way I'm spending $500 on fittings that are the same exact thing. Don't believe they're the same? Order one off eBay and give one to a buddy to look at. They wont be able to tell the difference between them. I NEVER had any leakage issues either. Fuel will be normal ethanol, but when someone needs the sauce I'll have an Ignite Red tune as well.
Like I said, I will be consistently updating this thread. All of my Google Drive Sheets are here if anyone wants to take a look. Please feel free to ask questions and I'd love to answer them!
Wiring Harness (WIP):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
Total Cost (WIP):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
Here's some quick prototyping I did today with mounting the C127 Dash. Simple first step out of cardboard. Made my measurements and will be 3D printing sometime this week:
C127 Solidworks with Backplate
You can see here how I made the plate fully adjustable using slots instead of holes. This lets me find a good position for the display, mark the backplate, and then print a second one with holes instead of slots for a more solid mount. The dash will need to be cut to fit this display.
The following users liked this post:
ob1kanukie (04-01-2021)
#6
Initially I thought that the wiring of the car would be extremely difficult, but as I have progressed slowly, identifying sensors one by one the challenge is more time consuming that a real "challenge." There are a few basics that we need to address when it comes to wiring a car: Relays, analog sensors, digital sensors, auxiliary sensors/outputs, grounds, and I guess I'll mention fuses.
Lets start with the simplest, and easiest to understand: The relay. MANY of us in the forced induction forum have worked with at least one relay when we needed to install our larger fuel pumps. What a relay does is it takes a "signal" from a signal wire, the relay then "trips on" and then provides more power through a 12v source, generally the battery. Automotive relays usually have 4 pins numbered 86 85 87 and 30. 85 is chassis ground. 30 is fused battery +, 86 is the signal wire, and 87 is the power wire to whatever you gotta power. As of right now I will have 3 or 4 relays. The switched power source for all of them will be the "on" spade connector underneath the dash. Not sure if anyone has a better fuse area to use. Relay 1 is to power the M150, the C127, the MoTeC keypad thing, basically anything MoTeC related. Relay 2 will be for 12v+ for injectors and coils and a few 12v sensors. I will describe the 12v vs 5v sensors later on. The third and 4th relays will be for my fuel pumps.
Fuses are simple to understand. Generally you want them to be 1.5x higher than your maximum current draw from any one component. Current draw is easy to calculate using Ohms law which is V=IR or I=V/R. We can measure the resistance and the voltage should be 12 or 5v. The fuse will stop components from literally melting and frying themselves of the current gets to high.
Analog sensors operate in a range from 0-5v. This means that MANY of these sensors rely on a steady 5v power source which, in MoTeC, can be grabbed from the ECU. Examples of 5v analog sensors: MAP, Oil pressure, coolant pressure, back pressure, basically any pressure sensor. These sensors have 3 pins. One is a 5v+, another is signal which goes into an analog input within the ECU, and the last is a CONTROLLED ground which is also built into the MoTeC. In my case I use Sensor 5v B+ on the MoTeC which means I need to use the corresponding ground of Sensor 0v B pin on the ECU. We can see I do this on my spreadsheet.
Digital sensors are a little different. They are either ON or OFF. I was surprised to learn that the AP1 s2000s actually use "VR" sensors in the cam and crank sensors. This means we have only 2 wires that come out of them. One of them is signal + and the other is a controlled ground. VR sensors do not require power as the sensor and the wheel they read are magnetic, and when you generate a magnetic field you create a voltage/current that the ECU will read. You can see in my sheet that I used UDIG1 for crank sensors and UDIG2 for cam. These might be moved around in the future though.
Auxiliary will be something like a boost controller that can be controlled using pulse width modulation. I'll probably use a half bridge output in the MoTeC to control this. Not 100% sure yet but I believe it can be configured for that.
That basically about it for wiring. Once its broken down into small pieces its quite easy to understand. I'll begin to construct the physical harness later this month with pictures. I'll also include a wiring diagram that I have yet to draw. I'm not familiar with Solidworks electrical so I gotta find a simpler program to use or maybe I'll use pencil and paper for it. Either works. I'm also not familiar with CAN systems yet. As I learn more about them I'll post about that too. All I know is that it's a phenomenal way for different systems to communicate. Including the dash, HTG, M150. The best part is that its only 2 wires wrapped around each other.
Lets start with the simplest, and easiest to understand: The relay. MANY of us in the forced induction forum have worked with at least one relay when we needed to install our larger fuel pumps. What a relay does is it takes a "signal" from a signal wire, the relay then "trips on" and then provides more power through a 12v source, generally the battery. Automotive relays usually have 4 pins numbered 86 85 87 and 30. 85 is chassis ground. 30 is fused battery +, 86 is the signal wire, and 87 is the power wire to whatever you gotta power. As of right now I will have 3 or 4 relays. The switched power source for all of them will be the "on" spade connector underneath the dash. Not sure if anyone has a better fuse area to use. Relay 1 is to power the M150, the C127, the MoTeC keypad thing, basically anything MoTeC related. Relay 2 will be for 12v+ for injectors and coils and a few 12v sensors. I will describe the 12v vs 5v sensors later on. The third and 4th relays will be for my fuel pumps.
Fuses are simple to understand. Generally you want them to be 1.5x higher than your maximum current draw from any one component. Current draw is easy to calculate using Ohms law which is V=IR or I=V/R. We can measure the resistance and the voltage should be 12 or 5v. The fuse will stop components from literally melting and frying themselves of the current gets to high.
Analog sensors operate in a range from 0-5v. This means that MANY of these sensors rely on a steady 5v power source which, in MoTeC, can be grabbed from the ECU. Examples of 5v analog sensors: MAP, Oil pressure, coolant pressure, back pressure, basically any pressure sensor. These sensors have 3 pins. One is a 5v+, another is signal which goes into an analog input within the ECU, and the last is a CONTROLLED ground which is also built into the MoTeC. In my case I use Sensor 5v B+ on the MoTeC which means I need to use the corresponding ground of Sensor 0v B pin on the ECU. We can see I do this on my spreadsheet.
Digital sensors are a little different. They are either ON or OFF. I was surprised to learn that the AP1 s2000s actually use "VR" sensors in the cam and crank sensors. This means we have only 2 wires that come out of them. One of them is signal + and the other is a controlled ground. VR sensors do not require power as the sensor and the wheel they read are magnetic, and when you generate a magnetic field you create a voltage/current that the ECU will read. You can see in my sheet that I used UDIG1 for crank sensors and UDIG2 for cam. These might be moved around in the future though.
Auxiliary will be something like a boost controller that can be controlled using pulse width modulation. I'll probably use a half bridge output in the MoTeC to control this. Not 100% sure yet but I believe it can be configured for that.
That basically about it for wiring. Once its broken down into small pieces its quite easy to understand. I'll begin to construct the physical harness later this month with pictures. I'll also include a wiring diagram that I have yet to draw. I'm not familiar with Solidworks electrical so I gotta find a simpler program to use or maybe I'll use pencil and paper for it. Either works. I'm also not familiar with CAN systems yet. As I learn more about them I'll post about that too. All I know is that it's a phenomenal way for different systems to communicate. Including the dash, HTG, M150. The best part is that its only 2 wires wrapped around each other.
#7
@MaxSorin if you're using Inline Pro for the engine and rear end stuff, why not use their BMW DCT kit when it comes out (I think I remember John telling me they were working on it).
Also, I get it that electrical is your thing, but you could actually just use an AEM Infinity plug and play from SOS and it will probably do anything and everything you want it to do.
For the fuel stuff, I'm actually running the Holley VR1 brushless fuel pump kit https://www.holley.com/products/fuel...s/parts/12-767 which uses the TI automotive BKS1000 brushless fuel pump. What injectors are you going to run?
Also, I get it that electrical is your thing, but you could actually just use an AEM Infinity plug and play from SOS and it will probably do anything and everything you want it to do.
For the fuel stuff, I'm actually running the Holley VR1 brushless fuel pump kit https://www.holley.com/products/fuel...s/parts/12-767 which uses the TI automotive BKS1000 brushless fuel pump. What injectors are you going to run?
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#8
I was unaware of any DCT ILP kit. I’ll reach out to John to see what he says but honest it’s just an adapter plate, flywheel, and cross member.
I did not go with infinity for a multitude of reasons. From my research it seems as if it’s a buggy system and isn’t completely optimized yet. On top of that a custom wiring harness lets me wire what I want to monitor through the Motec. Things such as IAT before and after the IC to see if it’s actually efficient or not. Same as psi, maybe there is a large pressure drop. I can log individual EGT with sensors for Motec setup correctly, but the #1 thing for me was the traction control. My tuner said that MoTeC handles traction control significantly better than the competition. Faster, more adjustable, etc. I like the Motec family of parts too. C127, M150, Dashboard button thing, good CAN communication. These are all things a pnp can’t do. As for injectors I’ll probably have a set of 2000 secondary and 1000 primary.
I did not go with infinity for a multitude of reasons. From my research it seems as if it’s a buggy system and isn’t completely optimized yet. On top of that a custom wiring harness lets me wire what I want to monitor through the Motec. Things such as IAT before and after the IC to see if it’s actually efficient or not. Same as psi, maybe there is a large pressure drop. I can log individual EGT with sensors for Motec setup correctly, but the #1 thing for me was the traction control. My tuner said that MoTeC handles traction control significantly better than the competition. Faster, more adjustable, etc. I like the Motec family of parts too. C127, M150, Dashboard button thing, good CAN communication. These are all things a pnp can’t do. As for injectors I’ll probably have a set of 2000 secondary and 1000 primary.
The following users liked this post:
treimche (01-17-2021)
#9
Some good info from Maxxecu regarding BMW DCT wiring/control.
https://www.maxxecu.com/webhelp/wiri...t_gearbox.html
https://www.maxxecu.com/webhelp/wiri...t_gearbox.html