Flywheeel for FI
06-25-2007, 10:39 AM
#22
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Originally Posted by Venomous S,Jun 25 2007, 08:25 AM
having a heavier flywheel helps you down low better because the heavier flywheel is able to resist change so you can hold your torque for example at launch
Corrected:
Originally Posted by Venomous S, Jun 22 2007, 10:19 PM
I been running a TODA and here are some specs on others:
a)Toda = 9lb
b) AP1 = 15lb or so
c) AP2 = 20lb or so
what would you use?
lighter = quicker turbo spool up
heavier = better driveability
a)Toda = 9lb
b) AP1 = 15lb or so
c) AP2 = 20lb or so
what would you use?
lighter = quicker turbo spool up
heavier = better driveability
06-25-2007, 10:52 AM
#23
Originally Posted by slimjim8201,Jun 25 2007, 08:03 AM
How does adding a heavier flywheel create more torque?
Think of it this way.........If you take a 20" wheel that weighs say 10 lbs, spin it, and then try to stop it with your hands it probably wouldn't be that hard. Now, take that same 20" wheel and put some weight on it, let's say to about 20 lbs, now do the same thing and try to stop it and tell me which one would be harder to stop. Of course it's going to be the heavier one due to the the greater rotating mass which makes for more TQ because once it gets started, it's harder to stop.
06-25-2007, 10:58 AM
#24
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Originally Posted by slimjim8201,Jun 25 2007, 01:39 PM
It has nothing to do with torque and everything to do with driveability.
Corrected:
Corrected:
And if it has nothing to do with torque, then the flywheel only serves one purpose only, to mount the clutch onto it.
What is your definition of driveability when it comes to the flywheel topic discussed here
Hint: Look at spoolin's post
06-25-2007, 11:30 AM
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[QUOTE=Spoolin,Jun 25 2007, 01:52 PM] More rotating mass will always equal more torque.
Think of it this way.........If you take a 20" wheel that weighs say 10 lbs, spin it, and then try to stop it with your hands it probably wouldn't be that hard. Now, take that same 20" wheel and put some weight on it, let's say to about 20 lbs, now do the same thing and try to stop it and tell me which one would be harder to stop. Of course it's going to be the heavier one due to the the greater rotating mass which makes for more TQ because once it gets started, it's harder to stop.
Think of it this way.........If you take a 20" wheel that weighs say 10 lbs, spin it, and then try to stop it with your hands it probably wouldn't be that hard. Now, take that same 20" wheel and put some weight on it, let's say to about 20 lbs, now do the same thing and try to stop it and tell me which one would be harder to stop. Of course it's going to be the heavier one due to the the greater rotating mass which makes for more TQ because once it gets started, it's harder to stop.
06-25-2007, 11:54 AM
#27
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by slimjim8201,Jun 25 2007, 02:30 PM
Do not confuse torque with inertia. Two completely different animals. The engine makes a certain amount of torque. Nothing in the drivetrain can increase this amount of "angular force" created by the engine unless gearing is involved. A flywheel, among other things, adds a bit of mass to the rotating engine components, raising the angular moment of inertia, hindering rotational acceleration, causing the engine to rev up or down slower.
It's harder to stall a car with a heavier flywheel because it takes more energy to decelerate the rotating engine components. VERY extreme example:
Engine 1 has a moment of inertia of ZERO. That is the mass of all of the rotating engine components adds up to zero, inlcuding the flywheel.
Engine 2 has a moment of inertia of INFINITY. That is the mass of all of the rotating engine components adds up to some infinitely large number.
Assume both engines are idling at 1000 RPM, the transmission is in first gear, and the clutch is dropped (assume the clutch will engage immediately with ZERO slip).
Engine 1 will stall immediately because it would take a very, very small amount of energy to cause the decelerations necessary to stop the rotation. Engine 2 will not decelerate at all. Not one bit. Instead the tires will immediately break traction and spin at a rate corresponding to 1000 RPM times the total gearing in first and the engine will remain at idle speed. It would take an infinitely large amount of force to slow that engine down, as the rotational moment of inertia is so high.
It's harder to stall a car with a heavier flywheel because it takes more energy to decelerate the rotating engine components. VERY extreme example:
Engine 1 has a moment of inertia of ZERO. That is the mass of all of the rotating engine components adds up to zero, inlcuding the flywheel.
Engine 2 has a moment of inertia of INFINITY. That is the mass of all of the rotating engine components adds up to some infinitely large number.
Assume both engines are idling at 1000 RPM, the transmission is in first gear, and the clutch is dropped (assume the clutch will engage immediately with ZERO slip).
Engine 1 will stall immediately because it would take a very, very small amount of energy to cause the decelerations necessary to stop the rotation. Engine 2 will not decelerate at all. Not one bit. Instead the tires will immediately break traction and spin at a rate corresponding to 1000 RPM times the total gearing in first and the engine will remain at idle speed. It would take an infinitely large amount of force to slow that engine down, as the rotational moment of inertia is so high.
When I said torque or hold torque, and that w/ the heavier flywheel you are able to resist change, maybe inertia is the word I was lookgin for.
06-26-2007, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by blues2k3,Jun 23 2007, 11:53 AM
as I have indicated previously, the setup I gave you utilizes a high clamping load. Although Hondas are not prone to crank walk due to the thrush bearing, I have personally damaged two engines attributed to the extreme load. The lightwieght flywheel mated to that custom clutch will eventually cause harm to the motor. That is why I migrated to the 04 flywheel and resurfaced it a bit. Also keep in mind most lightweight flywheel does not go hand in hand with longevity.
I currently have the Toda FW with the ACT clutch and PP. <--
or 
for turbo?
06-26-2007, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Boostedtaco,Jun 26 2007, 05:06 PM
This is a very interesting thread....
Now i doubt whether to buy a Lightened flywheel at all.
Anyone have experience with a Lightened Pressure Plate from Spec?
Now i doubt whether to buy a Lightened flywheel at all.
Anyone have experience with a Lightened Pressure Plate from Spec?
what should i get? cc flywheel 11lb?