Speakers, amp and HU
10-06-2009, 06:24 PM
#1
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Speakers, amp and HU
1. i would like to state that i am an audio noob, I have searched for about an hour and am 10x more confused than i was before. I can do an install but have no clue about the physics/science behind selecting the proper gear.
2. having said that i want a very simple system. I just cannot stand not being able to hear music.
HU (will also be getting adapter for side controls)
upgraded Speakers (po put in some basic pioneer, should i upgrade from these?)
Upgraded tweeters (stock)
Amp powering everything (pref a small one for under or behind the pass seat)
Who has a similar setup that i can copy? I need suggestions for the right speakers and amp to give me nice clear sounding music at about 70 mph
3. noob question, is it possible to power a small 8in sub using the same amp as the amp i plan to power the 2 speakers and 2 tweeters with? (dont think so but figure i would ask)
I really appreciate the help, i have searched and hope that someone can help me out
2. having said that i want a very simple system. I just cannot stand not being able to hear music.
HU (will also be getting adapter for side controls)
upgraded Speakers (po put in some basic pioneer, should i upgrade from these?)
Upgraded tweeters (stock)
Amp powering everything (pref a small one for under or behind the pass seat)
Who has a similar setup that i can copy? I need suggestions for the right speakers and amp to give me nice clear sounding music at about 70 mph
3. noob question, is it possible to power a small 8in sub using the same amp as the amp i plan to power the 2 speakers and 2 tweeters with? (dont think so but figure i would ask)
I really appreciate the help, i have searched and hope that someone can help me out
10-06-2009, 07:13 PM
#2
How much money do you want to spend for everything? ~$1000, or only ~$300? The more you can spend the better you can sound.
And what year is your S, because the stock 00 stereo is considerably poorer than the stock 08 stereo.
You should be looking at getting a high RMS power rating with low noise to speakers that are built to handle it. Companies will typically rate their products with XX W RMS @ X% THD from XX Hz-XX kHz. You want reasonable power at low noise from 20Hz to 20kHz, ideally. THD = Total Harmonic Distortion. If THD is high at the rated power, it means the stereo sounds like garbage at that point. If the range is narrower, it means they're not accounting for either low or high frequencies.
A new head unit will typically output 10-20W RMS at ~1% THD and the full frequency range, 20Hz - 20kHz. ~50W RMS will get very loud, and you probably won't want more than that at this time.
And what year is your S, because the stock 00 stereo is considerably poorer than the stock 08 stereo.
You should be looking at getting a high RMS power rating with low noise to speakers that are built to handle it. Companies will typically rate their products with XX W RMS @ X% THD from XX Hz-XX kHz. You want reasonable power at low noise from 20Hz to 20kHz, ideally. THD = Total Harmonic Distortion. If THD is high at the rated power, it means the stereo sounds like garbage at that point. If the range is narrower, it means they're not accounting for either low or high frequencies.
A new head unit will typically output 10-20W RMS at ~1% THD and the full frequency range, 20Hz - 20kHz. ~50W RMS will get very loud, and you probably won't want more than that at this time.
10-07-2009, 06:48 AM
#4
Your best bet will be to go to a car audio shop (even best buy) and listen to the stereos they have. Some of them will have their speakers powered by the radio, many of them power them with an external amplifier. If you can find out (prob by asking a sales / etc guy) which ones are powered by the deck only, turn it up loud and see how it sounds. Remember your car is TERRIBLY loud and noisy, unlike their quiet sound rooms. But that will let you get a feel for what power sounds like in terms of volume. Then you can figure out how much power you care to buy with your money. I'd guess it's under 50 W RMS as I said earlier.
For comparing ratings, they have a fairly new standard, the CEA 2006 standard, which is just means that the ratings certified by the standard are done at 14.4V @ 4 ohms, across 20Hz-20kHz, and with 1% THD. This ensure you're comparing apples to apples with your numbers. Not everybody uses it though.
When paying for car audio stuff, the lower end stuff gives you fair power with a lot of noise (meaning you can hear background static / hissing / etc. when you turn up the volume). That's actually going to include most of the names you hear commonly, ie many of the Kenwood, Sony, Pioneer, etc products. The higher end stuff is often comparably powerful on paper, but that same power comes with very little noise and distortion and a much higher price tag. You probably don't care enough right now to pay it!
Many people are happy with what you described--just a little more sound without spending a ton of money. I'd guess what you're looking for is something like a middle of the road alpine head unit and a set of cheaper component speakers with crossovers. You can go cheaper (and get lower quality), but that should be doable for around or under $500 and give you pretty good satisfaction per dollar spent.
Here's something like that:
Any head unit from this list:
http://www.alpine-usa.com/US-en/products/s...?category=AV_HU
Basic components, for instance:
http://www.alpine-usa.com/US-en/products/p...C&lang=en&tab=F
That set might be too quiet though--that gets into what is called "Sensitivity." It describes how much volume in dB is produced per Watt of input power for speakers. This is also called efficiency. Often, speakers that sound great with a fair bit of power are not efficient, so they have figures of ~85dB. Sometimes speakers have high efficiency, ie ~100dB, so if you only have a little power to work with (ie the 10W-20W RMS from a new head unit with no external amplifier), those speakers might be a better fit for your stereo, your goals, and your budget. A lot of garbage speakers have high efficiency, but decent quality ones can be made with high efficiency just as well, so don't let a junk set of speakers fool you into thinking this isn't a useful metric.
Also, with speakers, the frequency response is not flat with frequency. What this means is that if you hear a singer's voice that contains sound from 3kHz to 6kHz and your speakers have a spike at ~5kHz, that portion of the singer's voice will be amplified more than the rest. Cheaper ones generally have more / deeper spikes in their frequency response. Unfortunately, this is rarely published. So that's why people often tell you to go listen to them and/or go with a reputable brand. It's becuase some of the most important metrics never make it to you on paper.
Infinity generally makes higher efficiency speakers. I'd have to look better, but:
http://www.infinitysystems.com/car/product...y=US&Region=USA
/\/\
That might be better if you don't buy an amplifier...
I haven't really kept up with the market, so I'm not the best source for current product data.
For comparing ratings, they have a fairly new standard, the CEA 2006 standard, which is just means that the ratings certified by the standard are done at 14.4V @ 4 ohms, across 20Hz-20kHz, and with 1% THD. This ensure you're comparing apples to apples with your numbers. Not everybody uses it though.
When paying for car audio stuff, the lower end stuff gives you fair power with a lot of noise (meaning you can hear background static / hissing / etc. when you turn up the volume). That's actually going to include most of the names you hear commonly, ie many of the Kenwood, Sony, Pioneer, etc products. The higher end stuff is often comparably powerful on paper, but that same power comes with very little noise and distortion and a much higher price tag. You probably don't care enough right now to pay it!
Many people are happy with what you described--just a little more sound without spending a ton of money. I'd guess what you're looking for is something like a middle of the road alpine head unit and a set of cheaper component speakers with crossovers. You can go cheaper (and get lower quality), but that should be doable for around or under $500 and give you pretty good satisfaction per dollar spent.
Here's something like that:
Any head unit from this list:
http://www.alpine-usa.com/US-en/products/s...?category=AV_HU
Basic components, for instance:
http://www.alpine-usa.com/US-en/products/p...C&lang=en&tab=F
That set might be too quiet though--that gets into what is called "Sensitivity." It describes how much volume in dB is produced per Watt of input power for speakers. This is also called efficiency. Often, speakers that sound great with a fair bit of power are not efficient, so they have figures of ~85dB. Sometimes speakers have high efficiency, ie ~100dB, so if you only have a little power to work with (ie the 10W-20W RMS from a new head unit with no external amplifier), those speakers might be a better fit for your stereo, your goals, and your budget. A lot of garbage speakers have high efficiency, but decent quality ones can be made with high efficiency just as well, so don't let a junk set of speakers fool you into thinking this isn't a useful metric.
Also, with speakers, the frequency response is not flat with frequency. What this means is that if you hear a singer's voice that contains sound from 3kHz to 6kHz and your speakers have a spike at ~5kHz, that portion of the singer's voice will be amplified more than the rest. Cheaper ones generally have more / deeper spikes in their frequency response. Unfortunately, this is rarely published. So that's why people often tell you to go listen to them and/or go with a reputable brand. It's becuase some of the most important metrics never make it to you on paper.
Infinity generally makes higher efficiency speakers. I'd have to look better, but:
http://www.infinitysystems.com/car/product...y=US&Region=USA
/\/\
That might be better if you don't buy an amplifier...
I haven't really kept up with the market, so I'm not the best source for current product data.
10-08-2009, 01:34 PM
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ACE i greatly appreciate all the help. I might skip out on the amp and go the infinity route.
can i get your opinion on this HU if you have one?
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=736514
once again thank you.
can i get your opinion on this HU if you have one?
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=736514
once again thank you.
10-08-2009, 04:55 PM
#6
No problem at all. DO go listen to the speakers first if at all possible--don't just take my word for it alone. Infinity speakers often sound bright/harsh, but they aren't $500 either. If you listen, you'll find out how well you like them and if they're worth your money. I expect you will think they're a good option, but it's your hard-earned money and your ears, so you'd do well to find out for yourself. You may find something you like better.
That Kenwood Excelon KDC-X693 looks fine for a sub-$200 unit. It's probably a safe bet for your wants, needs, and budget. I'd also look at the Alpines. I don't care for the way they look, but many people swear by them, and they're in the price range.
That Kenwood Excelon KDC-X693 looks fine for a sub-$200 unit. It's probably a safe bet for your wants, needs, and budget. I'd also look at the Alpines. I don't care for the way they look, but many people swear by them, and they're in the price range.
10-08-2009, 09:05 PM
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Instead of starting a new thread with the same topic, I'll just post here.
I am also noob at audio related things. Currently the sound from my speakers are really "high" sounding, like the quality isn't great. When I bought the car it came with a Pioneer HU, (don't know what brand, have to check) amp and sub. I'm not sure if the speakers are stock or aftermarket but they sound much worse than stock '99 civic lx speakers I used to drive. My sub seems to be not working either so I might be looking for a newer smaller one (currently takes up the tool kit space with about 1 finger of space on each side).
I am also noob at audio related things. Currently the sound from my speakers are really "high" sounding, like the quality isn't great. When I bought the car it came with a Pioneer HU, (don't know what brand, have to check) amp and sub. I'm not sure if the speakers are stock or aftermarket but they sound much worse than stock '99 civic lx speakers I used to drive. My sub seems to be not working either so I might be looking for a newer smaller one (currently takes up the tool kit space with about 1 finger of space on each side).
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10-09-2009, 11:08 AM
#8
Originally Posted by bakalag,Oct 8 2009, 11:05 PM
Instead of starting a new thread with the same topic, I'll just post here.
I am also noob at audio related things. Currently the sound from my speakers are really "high" sounding, like the quality isn't great. When I bought the car it came with a Pioneer HU, (don't know what brand, have to check) amp and sub. I'm not sure if the speakers are stock or aftermarket but they sound much worse than stock '99 civic lx speakers I used to drive. My sub seems to be not working either so I might be looking for a newer smaller one (currently takes up the tool kit space with about 1 finger of space on each side).
I am also noob at audio related things. Currently the sound from my speakers are really "high" sounding, like the quality isn't great. When I bought the car it came with a Pioneer HU, (don't know what brand, have to check) amp and sub. I'm not sure if the speakers are stock or aftermarket but they sound much worse than stock '99 civic lx speakers I used to drive. My sub seems to be not working either so I might be looking for a newer smaller one (currently takes up the tool kit space with about 1 finger of space on each side).
Check your EQ and filter settings on both the head unit and the amp first if you haven't.
Your wiring might be the problem with the sub, and it can be along several paths, ie RCA to amp (you could check for voltage and then plug them into something and see if you're getting meaningful signal...), power to amp (does it turn on?), amplified sound to amp (change wires or rewire from amp to sub)...
10-09-2009, 12:22 PM
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oh I figured out what was wrong, there was a setting called HFE or something...HPE? but I turned it off and sound isn't bad sounding anymore and bass kicks in now.
Thanks for the help!
Thanks for the help!
10-16-2009, 01:56 PM
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I took the car to the dealer to get it checked for something today and a tech asked to check my battery. He said it is due to replacement 454 CCA/625 CCA. I asked if it has to do with the amp in the back, and he told me the amp is probably drawing the power from the battery cause I don't have some sort of filter system for the amp. What filter thing is he talking about, and should disconnect my amp since it may be draining my battery?