Speaker Recommendation
04-22-2001, 02:36 PM
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I just had Eclipse 82641 speakers installed into my car and it sounds 100 percent better. I went in the local store planning on buying Alpine but after listneing to many models, the Eclipse sounded the best out of the 6 1/2 speakers. No amp is required for these speakers.
04-23-2001, 01:12 AM
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Originally posted by ricosuave
an amp will work wonders (even if it's 25x2)
an amp will work wonders (even if it's 25x2)
05-02-2001, 04:42 AM
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Amp vs head.
I'm still caught in the dilemma, even for my very efficient Kenwood KFC xr600 speakers (same as Utah chose to use with his Pioneer DEH P730 head--a 50 watt/channel peak head--about 20 watts rms).
I listened to the component version of the Kenwood speakers on my audio shop's sound board with the Pioneer DEH P730 with a JL Audio amp and without the JL audio amp. At loud volumes the amp made a huge difference. The DEH P730 put out a lot of clipping/distortion that disappeared by switching in the amp.
I would love to buy only a head and not have to run 4 to 8 gauge wire through the firewall, not have to cut into the speaker wires-wiring harness, not have to string power wire, speaker wire, amp control wire through the cabin, not have to find a compromise spot for the amp. However, it seems that keeping the stock head and adding an amp will really add more clean sound than changing heads. Also, keeping the stock heads keeps the stock dash controls.
Alpine's CDA7863 and CDA7864 heads will put out "60 watts per channel" about 21 or 22 watts rms. The Kenwood KFC-xr600 speakers are rated for 45 watts rms.
Quite a few two channel amps produce clean 45 watts per channel into 4 ohms. My current favorite is the Alpine MRV-T407 which my local audio shop will sell me for $180 plus $60 for wiring kit plus $80 for installation labor. Crutchfield would like to sell me the Kenwood 629S amp for about $150 plus extras.
I got an email lead from a UK audio shop claiming they will sell me the Kenwood KCE-865B adapter for Alpine head units.
I'm completely undecided whether to get the Alpine CDA7864 plus KCE-865B and wait on the amp or whether to get the Alpine MRV-T407 and do the more complicated install.
The truth is I like the stock head with the xr600s except at highway noise levels.
Barry
I'm still caught in the dilemma, even for my very efficient Kenwood KFC xr600 speakers (same as Utah chose to use with his Pioneer DEH P730 head--a 50 watt/channel peak head--about 20 watts rms).
I listened to the component version of the Kenwood speakers on my audio shop's sound board with the Pioneer DEH P730 with a JL Audio amp and without the JL audio amp. At loud volumes the amp made a huge difference. The DEH P730 put out a lot of clipping/distortion that disappeared by switching in the amp.
I would love to buy only a head and not have to run 4 to 8 gauge wire through the firewall, not have to cut into the speaker wires-wiring harness, not have to string power wire, speaker wire, amp control wire through the cabin, not have to find a compromise spot for the amp. However, it seems that keeping the stock head and adding an amp will really add more clean sound than changing heads. Also, keeping the stock heads keeps the stock dash controls.
Alpine's CDA7863 and CDA7864 heads will put out "60 watts per channel" about 21 or 22 watts rms. The Kenwood KFC-xr600 speakers are rated for 45 watts rms.
Quite a few two channel amps produce clean 45 watts per channel into 4 ohms. My current favorite is the Alpine MRV-T407 which my local audio shop will sell me for $180 plus $60 for wiring kit plus $80 for installation labor. Crutchfield would like to sell me the Kenwood 629S amp for about $150 plus extras.
I got an email lead from a UK audio shop claiming they will sell me the Kenwood KCE-865B adapter for Alpine head units.
I'm completely undecided whether to get the Alpine CDA7864 plus KCE-865B and wait on the amp or whether to get the Alpine MRV-T407 and do the more complicated install.
The truth is I like the stock head with the xr600s except at highway noise levels.
Barry
05-11-2001, 07:42 PM
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OK, what's a head? I haven't put in stereos put in a car for 15 year, no, not old, only 33, put I just haven't been much into stereos. I do think the radio in my S kinda sucks, not much power, however, some of you have been saying new speakers makes it louder? I thought the amp (power) not speakers made a radio louder. Someone here set me straight.
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05-12-2001, 03:14 AM
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Originally posted by foreversilver
Someone here set me straight.
Someone here set me straight.
The stock speakers are pretty efficient, but not very accurate at higher volumes.
Better speakers, better radio "head", and an amp can all improve the sound.
Most start with speakers and are VERY impressed with the improvement. It makes the music much more clear even at lower volumes and helps a heck of a lot at higher volumes.
Some have added a new head for the next improvement and some have added an amp and some both. Each contributes improvement.
Barry
05-12-2001, 03:22 AM
#9
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Barry:
A couple of points on your posts that I never seem to get around to saying. When you tested the P730 and said switching in/out the amp changed the level of distortion, was this through one of those switching boxes like those found in reatil stores (like Circuit City and the like)? If so, be aware that that's probably not the best way to listen to a full setup...those crossbars suck most of the time, in no uncertain words, and can add significant distortion to a signal, but not necessarily along all paths. Maybe the P730 was actually distorting, but until I heard the setup with/without an amp while NOT going through a crossbar, I wouldn't trust it. See if you can find someone with a similar setupo and listen to it at another store...if there's no distortion, you're the victim of a poor crossbar setup.
You mention 4 to 8 guage wire for an amp...I do hope you were merely overemphasizing. I know most follow a rule of thumb for wire size when installing stereos, but I think that thumb has gotten larger as it has been passed from one generation of installer to the next. 14AWG wire can safely carry 15 Amps for over 100 feet without significant losses...so for a smaller amp (say 75Wx2) you could easily get away with 10-12 AWG wire (which is obviuously more easily bent through a firewall). Just something to consider...
Forever:
Head = stereo. New speakers can make a system louder...if they're more efficient. While I haven't run any tests on the stock speaker (and why should I?), my educated guess is they're probably around 87-88 dB/W/m, whereas an aftermarket speaker will start around 89 and go up. A 3dB increase results in double the power efficiency, to make the numbers more meaningful. So, yes, power makes them louder, but it's better to start with a high efficiency.
A couple of points on your posts that I never seem to get around to saying. When you tested the P730 and said switching in/out the amp changed the level of distortion, was this through one of those switching boxes like those found in reatil stores (like Circuit City and the like)? If so, be aware that that's probably not the best way to listen to a full setup...those crossbars suck most of the time, in no uncertain words, and can add significant distortion to a signal, but not necessarily along all paths. Maybe the P730 was actually distorting, but until I heard the setup with/without an amp while NOT going through a crossbar, I wouldn't trust it. See if you can find someone with a similar setupo and listen to it at another store...if there's no distortion, you're the victim of a poor crossbar setup.
You mention 4 to 8 guage wire for an amp...I do hope you were merely overemphasizing. I know most follow a rule of thumb for wire size when installing stereos, but I think that thumb has gotten larger as it has been passed from one generation of installer to the next. 14AWG wire can safely carry 15 Amps for over 100 feet without significant losses...so for a smaller amp (say 75Wx2) you could easily get away with 10-12 AWG wire (which is obviuously more easily bent through a firewall). Just something to consider...
Forever:
Head = stereo. New speakers can make a system louder...if they're more efficient. While I haven't run any tests on the stock speaker (and why should I?), my educated guess is they're probably around 87-88 dB/W/m, whereas an aftermarket speaker will start around 89 and go up. A 3dB increase results in double the power efficiency, to make the numbers more meaningful. So, yes, power makes them louder, but it's better to start with a high efficiency.
05-12-2001, 03:37 AM
#10
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MacGyver, the guys at the stereo shop told me that the power supply for their sound board is inadequate.
So the head I was listening to didn't have a chance to show its stuff. It was seeing too little voltage.
I've got an amp on order (used, good buy), and I'm still leaning heavily towards replacing the head with either the Alpine CDA-7876 (60 watts x 4, no mp3) or CDA 7878 (45 watts x 4, mp3, seven band equalizer).
If the KCE-865B Alpine European adapter doesn't work, I'll either try the amp first or go with whatever head suits my fancy and use Pinky's mod. At that point, I'll probably use the amp first and see how long I can put up with the stock head.
MacGyver, the amp I've ordered, an Alpine MRV T407 puts out 75watts rms x 2 channels. What gauge wire would you use to the battery for a ten foot run?
Barry
So the head I was listening to didn't have a chance to show its stuff. It was seeing too little voltage.
I've got an amp on order (used, good buy), and I'm still leaning heavily towards replacing the head with either the Alpine CDA-7876 (60 watts x 4, no mp3) or CDA 7878 (45 watts x 4, mp3, seven band equalizer).
If the KCE-865B Alpine European adapter doesn't work, I'll either try the amp first or go with whatever head suits my fancy and use Pinky's mod. At that point, I'll probably use the amp first and see how long I can put up with the stock head.
MacGyver, the amp I've ordered, an Alpine MRV T407 puts out 75watts rms x 2 channels. What gauge wire would you use to the battery for a ten foot run?
Barry