Willie Gee

i just powereed my rears off of the HU and couldn't happier. (they are in s-pods BTW) I STILL use the fader to bring the soundstage up to the front. I can't really hear the rears, but when i turn them off the music doesn't sound as "full."

So i agree that putting too much money in your rears is a waste, but not having them doesn't suit my taste.

xviper

I did the rear speaker thing about 4 years ago. I took out the stock door speakers and put them in the rear panels and got better speakers for the doors. This opened up the unused wattage of the second set of channels.
All this talk of sound imaging, staging, sound quality - you're kidding, right? This thing is a convertible and a poorly insulated one at that. At highway speeds with the top down (or up for that matter), at long as the sound is not crackling and not distorted, all I care about is VOLUME - clear, "listenable" VOLUME. If I want quality and great audiophile sound, I'm not going to sit in my S2000 to get it. With all the road noise, wind noise, exhaust noise, intake noise, engine noise, if I can even get some semblance of right/left stereo separation at speed, I'm laughing.

Willie Gee

Fact:
you can actually get decent imaging on the highway at 80+ mph top down with good quality amped component fronts.

Xviper:
The next time you are at a group drive and you have an electronics junkie with you that has a proper set-up, go for a drive with him/her. you will be shocked/ amazed at what a good system can overcome. i admit quickly that there is no reason to install super high end gear into an s2k because of windnoise+ car noise. There's just no point. But you can have good imaging and clarity at speed. But you have to trash the stock HU and amp your fronts.

you have to try it to believe it, but it's true.

xviper

Actually, there are a couple of owners here with high powered systems. I've listened to them and as impressive as they are, they are simply not my thing. Like I said, I just want clear, "listenable" volume at speed and the stock HU with rear OEM speakers does the job for me. If I want quality sound, I have a $5000.00 system in my home.

Willie Gee

The home is the best place for "quality sound" but good results can be achieved in a car, even the s2k. And i wouldn't put the most expensive gear i can find in the s because that would be a waste of money. it's sports car after all. It was designed to drive, not as a listening environment.

PJK3

well, i had a nice little reply typed up for this, but then suddenly, all my IE windows closed, my winamp turned off, and windows shutdown... then i noticed a little 1 year old finger pushing my power button in and out, in and out, in and out.... doh!


Mark to answer your question --

i've tuned 2 sets of Spods personally. i've helped a few others via PM or phone do theirs. i'll only discuss the 2 i personally tuned. one was an OEM setup (upgraded speakers in front w/ OEM's moved to the pods) and the other was a pretty elaborate system w/ multiple amps, crossovers, subs, etc.

the quick and dirty method i use when trying to get a fast tune for fader/levels is to:
turn the fader all the way to the back. roll it forward slowly till you can't hear the rears at all anymore. note that position
turn the fader all the way forward then, and slowly roll it back till you can JUST barely hear the rears kick in. set the fader at some point between the 2, favoring the fronts.

this should put you in a position where the fronts are very strong, and the rears are just barely ambient, but not noticable. it's a rough setting, and should be tweaked over time, keeping in mind the purpose of rears.

the other was an Alpine based HU (9835 as i recall), and i did it quickly at SESM. the system has changed since then, and wasn't complete at the time, so going into specific settings isn't approrpriate. still - it will depend highly on the speakers involved, the sub strength, power, etc.

as a starting point, i'd generally cross the fronts over at around 50 hz if possible. higher if needed, but below 80 hz. these should be at a -6 dB to -12 dB slope. keeping the midbass/bass up front as much as possible. sub i'd tune at around 50 to 60 hz w/ a -12 dB slope. and the S-pods, i'd tune closer to 80 - 100 hz at a -12 to -18 dB slope.

then set levels as i mentioned above before any serious tuning.

the purpose behind this is to get the rears to roll off fast and focus the already heavy rear bass presence (assuming the common trunk sub setup) forward as much as possible. also, you're taking the midrange and highs, and putting them as ambient... bass doesn't reflect as well (at least not directionally), so it doesn't help the ambient focus...

time correction -- do the calcs, and then i even might add a few milliseconds to the rears give a slight delay, thus increasing the ambient effect.

in the end, it tuned out decently, and sounded pretty good. it needed some fine tuning as well, but i just didn't have the time then to do it.


the main thing after starting w/ this kind of baseline, is to focus on music that's full and/or use test tones to make sure there are no gaps in the sound. also, work on getting the image forward of you.


another person who i've helped tune is Jim (PAS2KNut) via the phone and some general test tones, etc. perhaps he can post his tuning numbers? i don't know how comfortable he feels w/ that, and i know he's always tweaking...



does this help? would you like more detail? i had a bit more originally, but thanks to Hailey Jozan.......


Willie,

you so funny...

btw, i don't recall what speakers you went w/ for the S-pods. i remember we discussed the Infinity Reference components......

a nice moderate rear speaker that blends well (maybe doesn't have the brightest brights or the lowest lows), but has good midrange is a perfect speaker to put in the S-pods imo. HU power is also fine for that application, though after all the frenzy i generated on mono-bridging them... i'd have to go w/ a small amp if i ever did it...



and if i put my windows up - it is flat out astounding. and on most long trips i take, the windows are up just to reduce the fatigue from the wind pounding me. so, i do get very good sound quality in the S on my long trips, cold nights, and such w/ the top down and windows up.


but XViper, i completely understand your point. there is NO need for this much sound/money in a car for the majority of the population. but for me? i don't expect audiophile quality in the S, but my minimum standards and concepts of audiophile quality are way higher than 99% of the population.
i'm sure what i consider barely acceptable is probably way beyond what you'd consider the same. for me, giving up good stereo imaging, and a front soundstage are simply unacceptable. i can live w/o every nuance in the S, as i love hearing the car run as well, but i also want clear and satisfying sound at the same time...

just imagine U2 or Dave Mathews sitting on my center console by the gearshift and jamming while we're crusing at 80+ mph. THAT's what i want...

Cyclon36

Talking with audiophile purists about this car is worthless. With the top down and breeze blowing I just want clear sound that surrounds me. Hell, in my opinion, who's to say where my stage should be anyway? If I were at a concert, I'd want to be in the middle of the freakin band jamming out. I'll agree that you want most of the sound to come from the front, but there's nothing wrong with filling up unused sound space.

PJK3

and that my friend is the point... ambient fill.

Willie Gee

i think this post is a classic. i laugh everytime i read it.

SilverstoneS2k_FL

I think some of you people are getting the wrong idea of this thread. We are not saying that we are putting our cars into competitions. We're not talking about McIntosh, Tru, high end Zapco, high end Arc, high end Diamond Audio, Focal, etc... It doesn't matter who I talk to. I'm talking about rear fill and putting high end speakers in the rear. What's the point when all you are doing is adding rear fill? And I was bringing up what is rear fill and how it should be used. I was trying to get comments on it. And I appreciate all the comments.