Question about choosing speakers
03-26-2004, 07:08 AM
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Question about choosing speakers
hey everyone,
I just received my Soundstream D'Artagnan amp and it looks sweet! For whatever reason I was under the impression that I could bridge the channels but according to the manual it can't be done. My question is with the amp providing 100 watts rms, should I shop for component speakers that are rated for 100 watts RMS or should I find ones with slightly lower ratings to provide 15-20% headroom. I know there has been some discussion on this, but I could not find any definitive recommendations (most dealt with blowing out subwoofers).
I am going to some shops soon to listen to Infinity and Focal speakers and want to make sure I'm listening to the right models. The Infintiy Perfects are rated at 100 watts rms as are the Focal 165 K2P. The Infinity Kappas are rated at 90 watts rms and the Focal 165 KP's are rated at 80 watts rms. I don't know if any of this makes a difference as long as I set my gains properly on the amp and don't go nuts with the volume on the headunit.
Thanks in advance for your help.
I just received my Soundstream D'Artagnan amp and it looks sweet! For whatever reason I was under the impression that I could bridge the channels but according to the manual it can't be done. My question is with the amp providing 100 watts rms, should I shop for component speakers that are rated for 100 watts RMS or should I find ones with slightly lower ratings to provide 15-20% headroom. I know there has been some discussion on this, but I could not find any definitive recommendations (most dealt with blowing out subwoofers).
I am going to some shops soon to listen to Infinity and Focal speakers and want to make sure I'm listening to the right models. The Infintiy Perfects are rated at 100 watts rms as are the Focal 165 K2P. The Infinity Kappas are rated at 90 watts rms and the Focal 165 KP's are rated at 80 watts rms. I don't know if any of this makes a difference as long as I set my gains properly on the amp and don't go nuts with the volume on the headunit.
Thanks in advance for your help.
03-26-2004, 08:24 AM
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regardless of all the mish mash discussions...
the fundamentals are - if you're careful about listening for distortion and not push beyond where you hear audible distortion, you can't hurt a speaker by underpowering it, and chances are, you won't hurt it by overpowering it...
the problem is - people don't listen for/hear the distortion. distortion is your speaker or amp telling you -- "hey, i shouldn't be going here..."
if you've got 100 Wrms for your components, shop for components rated in the 75 Wrms - 200 Wrms range and you should be gold. the better the sensitivity, the more volume you'll get / watt.
it doesn't.
the fundamentals are - if you're careful about listening for distortion and not push beyond where you hear audible distortion, you can't hurt a speaker by underpowering it, and chances are, you won't hurt it by overpowering it...
the problem is - people don't listen for/hear the distortion. distortion is your speaker or amp telling you -- "hey, i shouldn't be going here..."
if you've got 100 Wrms for your components, shop for components rated in the 75 Wrms - 200 Wrms range and you should be gold. the better the sensitivity, the more volume you'll get / watt.
I don't know if any of this makes a difference as long as I set my gains properly on the amp and don't go nuts with the volume on the headunit.
it doesn't.
03-26-2004, 09:42 AM
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Thanks for clearing that up PJK3! In case you couldn't tell I'm a bit of newbie to all this. This is the first car I've had that I actually wanted to spend money on to make even better!
I'm planning on installing this system myself and I'm really thankful there are members like you and the other "experts" here to help me along the way.
On a side note, I contacted Elemental Design about whether or not to run the two 8" subs at lower power or a single at higher power. One of their techs responded in a matter of minutes and said that increase in surface area of two subs would produce more sound output in spite of the fact that they would be fed less power than a single. I think I am still going to start with one and then get a second if I feel its necessary.
Hopefully I'll have all this purchased and installed in time for the warm weather!
I'm planning on installing this system myself and I'm really thankful there are members like you and the other "experts" here to help me along the way.
On a side note, I contacted Elemental Design about whether or not to run the two 8" subs at lower power or a single at higher power. One of their techs responded in a matter of minutes and said that increase in surface area of two subs would produce more sound output in spite of the fact that they would be fed less power than a single. I think I am still going to start with one and then get a second if I feel its necessary.
Hopefully I'll have all this purchased and installed in time for the warm weather!
03-26-2004, 10:06 AM
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To expand a bit on what Phil said...
If you get a 75W speaker, make sure the gain is set so that at near full volume on the deck the amp is not putting out more than 75Wrms. I say "near full volume" as going higher will present distortion on the input signal to the amp, and that's not going to do good things to your speaker when at the limits of it's design.
If you get something heftier, like 200W speakers, adjust the gain on the amp to a bit less then 1 to avoid the amp addin in distortion, and don't turn up the deck unit completely to max. Even if you did, you probably aren't going to hurt the speaker, but it won't sound that good, so why do it.
Any speaker size in between and you'll just need to use common sense on settings.
If you get a 75W speaker, make sure the gain is set so that at near full volume on the deck the amp is not putting out more than 75Wrms. I say "near full volume" as going higher will present distortion on the input signal to the amp, and that's not going to do good things to your speaker when at the limits of it's design.
If you get something heftier, like 200W speakers, adjust the gain on the amp to a bit less then 1 to avoid the amp addin in distortion, and don't turn up the deck unit completely to max. Even if you did, you probably aren't going to hurt the speaker, but it won't sound that good, so why do it.
Any speaker size in between and you'll just need to use common sense on settings.
03-26-2004, 10:19 AM
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Thanks for responding MacGyver.
Just to make sure I understand you, if I am using spekaers that are rated less than the power I am putting out I would want to set the gains lower and if I am using speakers rated higher I would want to set the gains higher? Or is it the other way around?
Is there a specific way to "tune" you system once its installed? Is there a specific set of steps you would take to setting your gains or is more hit or miss?
Most of the speaker I am looking at are rated at the same power output that my amp is putting out, does this mean I would set the gains at the same voltage as the preamp output voltage from the headunit and then adjust them based on what I was hearing? If I remember correctly the gains have settings from 5V to 30mV or something like that (I would have to check when I got home).
Thanks again for the help.
Just to make sure I understand you, if I am using spekaers that are rated less than the power I am putting out I would want to set the gains lower and if I am using speakers rated higher I would want to set the gains higher? Or is it the other way around?
Is there a specific way to "tune" you system once its installed? Is there a specific set of steps you would take to setting your gains or is more hit or miss?
Most of the speaker I am looking at are rated at the same power output that my amp is putting out, does this mean I would set the gains at the same voltage as the preamp output voltage from the headunit and then adjust them based on what I was hearing? If I remember correctly the gains have settings from 5V to 30mV or something like that (I would have to check when I got home).
Thanks again for the help.
03-26-2004, 11:27 AM
#6
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On a side note, I contacted Elemental Design about whether or not to run the two 8" subs at lower power or a single at higher power. One of their techs responded in a matter of minutes and said that increase in surface area of two subs would produce more sound output in spite of the fact that they would be fed less power than a single. I think I am still going to start with one and then get a second if I feel its necessary.
If you get a 75W speaker, make sure the gain is set so that at near full volume on the deck the amp is not putting out more than 75Wrms. I say "near full volume" as going higher will present distortion on the input signal to the amp, and that's not going to do good things to your speaker when at the limits of it's design.
If you get something heftier, like 200W speakers, adjust the gain on the amp to a bit less then 1 to avoid the amp addin in distortion, and don't turn up the deck unit completely to max. Even if you did, you probably aren't going to hurt the speaker, but it won't sound that good, so why do it.
Any speaker size in between and you'll just need to use common sense on settings.
If you get something heftier, like 200W speakers, adjust the gain on the amp to a bit less then 1 to avoid the amp addin in distortion, and don't turn up the deck unit completely to max. Even if you did, you probably aren't going to hurt the speaker, but it won't sound that good, so why do it.
Any speaker size in between and you'll just need to use common sense on settings.
and also, you should keep in mind that 99% of the head unit's out there reach max volume BEFORE you get to the last number on the dial. take that last number, multiply it by 2/3 or .6667 and generally speaking -- that's the max volume that the HU will output cleanly. when you start to exceed that, your pre-amp signal will often start to run out of dynamic headroom and clip. so, fix in your mind that this number IS the max volume. on my Alpine HU - it's 24 out of 35. 24/35 = .686 = 68.6%
if this is your first major install, and you do some less than optimal speakers, then DEFINITELY get help on setting your gains. find someone who's very experienced... not just a joe blow who thinks he is knowledgeable.
if you don't have that kind of personal resource, rely a bit on us here, and follow this general guide:
Yanked straight from Crutchfield: http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/S-D5hFJt...ifiers_faq.html
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03-26-2004, 02:03 PM
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Thanks guys, that was exactly what I was looking for. My fiance's brother is pretty knowledgable about car audio and was going to help me on the install. He's installed a few systems himself and has won some local competitions for his installs but I think he focuses more on the "boom & bling" factor than quality sound. That's why I want to build up my own knowledge before we get into it so we can try to avoid any expensive mistakes.
It's great to have you guys as a resource and I just hope that us "newbies" don't ever wear on your patience. It's having knowledgable, helpful members like you guys that made me join this community.
Thanks again for all your help.
It's great to have you guys as a resource and I just hope that us "newbies" don't ever wear on your patience. It's having knowledgable, helpful members like you guys that made me join this community.
Thanks again for all your help.
