Amit

I won't go into too much detail, because this thread is probably only for people who know the differences. It seems to me that blue ray is better in every way, including support from more/bigger companies. The only draw back is a higher manufacturing cost of the blue ray disk (due to the tougher/thinner coating required on the disks surface). This little problem should level itself out in a short time. Also there is an added benefit from the type of coating they're using on the blue ray's, it's a lot tougher and fingerprint resistant compared to normal DVD's. Besides more support from larger companies, blue ray's got PS3 to help boost sales and awareness.

I'll put my chips on Blue Ray, how about you guys?

DFWs2k

But, like you said, blu-ray is more expensive.

Since companies are concerned with the bottom line, I don't think price is so easy to dismiss. Since HD is cheaper the companies supporting it (Microsoft, Toshiba) might even be willing to subsidize the cost so that it appears even cheaper to try to bring some more of the movie companies to the HD camp.

From a technological leap forward point of view, of course blu-ray is superior.

Pulse

There are already companies developing players that will read both formats.

So the whole beta/vhs thing should be over before it started.

PS3 isn't going to sell as well as they hoped AND they can't make enough to meet the current demand. Because of the shortage of blue diods they ended up shorting the production of regular blu-ray players so they've slowed down too.

360 has an HD player available, larger installed user base and they found that the HD drive for the 360 will also work on Mac's. So right there HD already has more available potential platforms.

And it can be had for a lot cheaper then the BluRays.

My opinion though? DVD's not going anywhere for a long time. There isn't a large enough difference between DVD and the new wannabe's to justify the upgrade for most people. VHS->DVD had a large, noted, difference.

I think it's going to take something more then larger storage space (most people don't have HD and won't for a while) to get people to upgrade. Especially with as much as the players cost.

Amit

I thought they couldn't make a universal player due the difference in distance from the laser head to the data layer, but who knows it certainly doesn't seem impossible.

As far as the cost of the players being too high. It's a matter of time before they go down, just like anything else. DVD players were expensive at first too.

The big question is whether or not people need/want a HD capable player. I surprised that so many people argue the need for one. Here's my reasoning:

1. People bought HDTV's even thought there was very little or no HD content broadcasted. (even to this day HD availability is very poor).

2. People already have HDTV's, so why not get full use out of them.

3. Most new Tv's will now be capable of 1080P, the only way to get that is blue ray. (until maybe fiOS will be available everywhere.)

_____________________

If we're going to set a new platform for media storage, why limit ourselves to a lower storage capacity for a minute and temporary incremental cost.

NFRs2000NYC

Blue Ray is more expensive, and Sony got into the habit of lying. Blue Ray will not win this fight IMHO.

Pulse

1) Some people bought them, but they were the people willing to spend a lot of money on a TV. It wasn't the population at large.

2) The people who spent a lot of money on a TV might be willing to pay the price for new players (which won't come down as fast as DVD players because of the cost involved in development and the "war") but the population at large doesn't have HD and, as yet, haven't moved in mass to replace their current TV sets.

3) 1080p sets still cost a lot of money. While they have a working set most people won't replace their current sets. So it's still going to take a long time for the population, as a whole, to adopt HD. Until that swings around and MOST people have HD, it's a bonus feature. And a bonus feature that MOST people won't be able to use.

This negates any value of HD as a "system seller". While people who spent $2500+ on a scalped PS3 may have HD, most people don't. So, in the case of most people, HD isn't something that's going to convince them to purchase a new player.

That leaves storage. As most people buy DVD's to watch the movie, they're more likely to just buy the $12.99 DVD instead of the $24.99+ BluRay or HD-DVD.

Once HD has gereneral market penetration the "war" will heat up a bit. While BluRay might have more features HDDVD will be cheaper.

Remember back to the VHS/Beta war. Beta was a better format. Smaller form factor, better media, better playback, etc, etc. But, who won? VHS. Why? Because it ended up being cheaper and more widely available.

Sony doesn't seem to have learned from the Beta loss (Sony was the one who owned Beta) any more then they learned from the MD blow ups (MD is better then CD, but not many people own a MD player).

So HD has a better then good chance of winning that war. But it isn't one that's going to matter to most people for years.

jwa4378

What is wrong with that sentence?

As far as the expensive TV's go, you can now get a 50" Philips HD plasma at Sams Club for $1800. The same TV 6 months ago cost $2200. I am receiving my master's degree in taxation, and we studied the pricing of these items as part of an extended seminar. The instructor concluded that the price of the big plasma / LCD varies according to the efficiency at which they can produce the "optical level" glass screen. It is apparently a very difficult process, with something like 1 in 4 becoming scrap. Very expensive. When they master this, prices will plummet. Take it for what its worth....

Personally, I think Blu-Ray is most definitely the best "choice", but the best choice is not always the one chosen. I think that HD will eventually win out on this one. It is cheaper, and can provide the same "quality" of picture (I didnt think the human eye could detect the difference between a 720p and a 1080p display.....480p to 1080p, yes....). Besides, when Microsoft backs something....it usually does not fail. And if the 360 HD is indeed compatible with Mac components, it will be compatible with Wii components (not a likely marriage of companies...) as the Wii uses a PowerPC based processor (or so I thought...).

It is an interesting debate. I think Blu-Ray will go the way of the Laser Disc....


John

Pulse

Simple, they made many comments on being able to sell millions of them as fast as they can make them.

Once they announce the price the demand dropped drastically.

They launched with, around, 100,000 units world wide. So they couldn't meet the demand. Which would, probably, have taken up to 250,000 units, or so (stateside).

My statement might have been over simplified but it's as follows: They won't sell the way Sony predicted, the pricepoint moves it out of the range most consumers are willing to spend on a "toy". Having said that, they are losing what customers they would have to the 350 and Wii as they couldn't make enough (shortage of diods and problems making the cell chips) to meet what demand there was.

Also, a good number of the ones that did sell went to scalpers. And even they are finding it hard to unload them as most people who were willing to spend three times retail already have one.

Amit

If you happen to run across any. I'll buy one at MSRP.

Kremlin

I think BluRay will fail -- it's great, technologicaly, but Sony's crapass marketing and business plans will kill the whole deal. Same old story as Beta/UMD/MemoryStick/All-the-other-memorysticks/MicroMV/MMCD/MiniDisc/etc/etc/etc...

Seriously, how many media formats has Sony completely failed on? I can't count em.

You say that Sony has more backing for their format -- at this time, HD has more titles available, more players available, official support in MS Windows.. HD players are also significantly cheaper.

I think HD-DVD will win. Either way, now would be a really stupid time to buy a player for either format since ONE WILL FAIL. Unless you want a PS3 for reasons other than its ability to watch BluRays, or if you have an Xbox 360 already and you want the player (it's cheap, and upscales regular DVDs!).