Tein Flex: reversing springs front to back.
09-25-2011, 04:47 PM
#11
I installed them yesterday with new front poly upper a-arm bushes and new mugen compliance bushings. I set the rebound to 7 clicks from full hard on all. Ride height is about 13 at the front and 13.75-14 at the rear. I plan on dropping both a little. Probably will go to about 13 front and 13.25 in rear or 12.75 and 13 respectively. I can just barely get in my driveway as it is.
Anyway first impression is that the car definitely feels tighter. Springs are much heavier and thus body distortion on bump is much less. In fact I live in uptown new orleans and the streets are like a cheese grater and it honestly feels much more comfortable than with stock. The big ass bumps though definitely transfer into the cabin better, but it doesnt feel like your being beat up on the myriad of other bumps as it did with stock. Im running front: 0 toe, max caster (9 deg), -1.9 camber. Rear: 1/16 toe in per side, -2.4 camber. The car feels more controlled under fast cornering, however I havent really pushed it let. I dont wanna find out where it lets go on the street. Soon as I find an empty lot or another autoX ill find out.
Anyway first impression is that the car definitely feels tighter. Springs are much heavier and thus body distortion on bump is much less. In fact I live in uptown new orleans and the streets are like a cheese grater and it honestly feels much more comfortable than with stock. The big ass bumps though definitely transfer into the cabin better, but it doesnt feel like your being beat up on the myriad of other bumps as it did with stock. Im running front: 0 toe, max caster (9 deg), -1.9 camber. Rear: 1/16 toe in per side, -2.4 camber. The car feels more controlled under fast cornering, however I havent really pushed it let. I dont wanna find out where it lets go on the street. Soon as I find an empty lot or another autoX ill find out.
09-25-2011, 05:49 PM
#12
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Yup those stats are what im running. I hit a parking lot at work today cause i had to swing by. Anyway i got the car up to about 25 and jerked the wheel hard and i couldnt get it to oversteer. Albeit not fast it gives me hope.
09-26-2011, 01:30 PM
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With that spring setup, I'd consider getting both F&R Eibach bars. Stiff front is 19% stiffer than stock, and soft rear is 20% stiffer. I have them on my car, and with 245/275 stagger Hoosiers and 575lb springs all around, the balance is very nicely neutral at high speeds and usefully oversteery down low.
09-26-2011, 02:14 PM
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Im not running the same spring rates front and rear which makes a big difference when talking about sways. The rear early ap1 sway bar is probably too much as is but i dont wanna take it off just yet until i have a chance to run it. Im autoxing so oversteer is the enemy and ultrafast turn in is where i wanna be.
09-26-2011, 02:15 PM
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And for that matter im runnin no stagger which also makes a big difference. The key is to make the rear softer relative to the front so itll hook all the time without sacrificing turn in speed through understeer.
09-26-2011, 02:32 PM
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Correct. However, your primary springs are actually softer in the rear, so stiffening only the front bar may result in more understeer than you intended.
I'd disagree that oversteer is the enemy in autocross- a little oversteer can allow you to reach zero steer angle more quickly, whereas understeer can make it very difficult to stay on line, especially in fast slaloms.
I'd disagree that oversteer is the enemy in autocross- a little oversteer can allow you to reach zero steer angle more quickly, whereas understeer can make it very difficult to stay on line, especially in fast slaloms.
09-26-2011, 03:13 PM
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Ok so why is every ones nationals setups (see thread in racing setup) running a huge saner or gendron front bar with a square 255 setup and identical spring rate ratio as what i have here with either no rear sway or a miata rear sway (about 50% less stiff than stock)?
09-26-2011, 03:55 PM
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The guys who are running Hoosiers are doing it to avoid lifting the inside rear wheel and spinning away all the power. They're sacrificing a certain amount of handling to do so. Cars in BS are required to run stock srings and a stock rear swaybar.
STR is LIMITED to 255 width, or else they'd be running 275 rears or 275 square. Many of these cars have very aggressive alignments, which maximize tire use and heating but would be uncontrollably oversteery without the highly staggered primary and secondary spring rates.
In autocross, modifications tend to reflect the realities of the rules rather than the ideal handling setup.
STR is LIMITED to 255 width, or else they'd be running 275 rears or 275 square. Many of these cars have very aggressive alignments, which maximize tire use and heating but would be uncontrollably oversteery without the highly staggered primary and secondary spring rates.
In autocross, modifications tend to reflect the realities of the rules rather than the ideal handling setup.
10-09-2011, 06:06 PM
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Ran the car today. Not terrible. Not great. Since I installed the flex I also went with a 32mm eibach bar, some poly bushing up front with mugen compliance bushings and disconnected rear bar. My first run I was oversteering, so I set the adjusters from 5 (from full hard) to 5 in front, 7 rear. That got me the best run of the day with about the perfect balance. Tried setting front to full hard on the next run, and the rears 2 clicks down, and my front end was like a snowmobiles. I then went way down on both to around 10 (from full hard) front, and 12 rear, and that was to soft, and still oversteering a bit oddly enough.
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