coilovers for the street
11-17-2022, 07:36 AM
#31
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Illnoise. WAY downtown, jerky.
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You're making my point. Improved tire technology makes amateur random suspension adjustment even less useful for general street use. Perhaps a few of those posting notes here have a clue on suspension adjustment but few others do. How does one measure the improvement -- under the rash assumption there is any? Lap times can do this on a track but where else can this be measured? Lap times measured within a second or two are PII * anyway and even then only valid on a specific track or corner -- that's where adjustability comes in.
I'm willing to bet the vast majority who fit adjustable coilovers just eyeball how much to lower the car and set it. Conspicuous consumption demands something visible and unless the car has been lowered no one will know how much money was spent.
If adjustable coilovers make you happy ("She's got coilovers, Bro,") go for it but no one has convinced me they have more than cosmetic or placebo benefit for the street nor that more than a tiny fraction of people have the least clue what adjustments to make other than lowering the car.
* PII. Preoccupation with Inconsequential Increments
-- Chuck
I'm willing to bet the vast majority who fit adjustable coilovers just eyeball how much to lower the car and set it. Conspicuous consumption demands something visible and unless the car has been lowered no one will know how much money was spent.
If adjustable coilovers make you happy ("She's got coilovers, Bro,") go for it but no one has convinced me they have more than cosmetic or placebo benefit for the street nor that more than a tiny fraction of people have the least clue what adjustments to make other than lowering the car.
* PII. Preoccupation with Inconsequential Increments
-- Chuck
How do you judge the stock suspension? Lap times to Starbucks?
Its not like the user is designing the suspension. We're recommending reputable companies that make a good product that has a sensible range of adjustment.
You don't need a PhD to do the adjustment. You just click it til you like it. Yeah, you'll probably ruin the stock dynamics. But...that's kinda the point. F#$k the stock dynamics. KnowwhatImean?
You're not going to irreprably ruin the car unless you do something really stupid and irreversible.
Last edited by B serious; 11-17-2022 at 07:45 AM.
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TsukubaCody (11-17-2022)
11-17-2022, 08:48 AM
#32
Judging it subjectively = placebo effect. As in "I spent [insert price here] so it darn well better be an improvement." Spend your money as you like but don't equate change with improvement.
-- Chuck
-- Chuck
11-17-2022, 09:13 AM
#33
Lol, this thread really bringing out the best in us. Wonder how OP feeling at this point. Probably regretting ever asking.
If it's all objective, what numbers are we shooting for on the spreadsheet to equal optimum Starbucks driving?
The sheet can be useful but real world experience trumps a spreadsheet. One example of this is the fact that most fast S2k's run an insanely stiff front swaybar that would suggest understeer city. There's 20+ years of experience/data written on this forum. There are 5+ different configurations of Ohlins that you can find within 5 minutes of searching on here. Plenty of vendors to offer a setup for just about any use case. Most Off-the-Shelf options will handle plenty well for a street driver, just depending on their tolerance for stiffness. Also, since the cars are pretty expensive now, not many people trying to run $500 chinesium coil overs just for the stance.
I think the spreadsheet is more useful to somebody that already has an aftermarket setup and is considering different spring rates or something. For me, I've been running 850/700 for two years now. I'm curious how much of a change running 800 or 750 lbs. on the rear shifts the balance. Now there's no knowing until I actually do it but it gives me an idea. It also gives me a way to approximate it. If I increase my rear swaybar stiffness to something that would approximate that level of balance, I could try it out before buying and make a more educated decision. I think in that way, it can be useful. Now directing someone who is asking "What coilovers do I buy for a street car?" to a spreadsheet, I'm not so sure is useful. It can give a vague idea with stock as a baseline but I don't think that a stock car provides much of a useful baseline to conceptualize doubling the spring rate without actually trying it. The two setups are so radically different that a spreadsheet can't tell you much. Also, it's not like some novice is trying to run 400 lb. fronts, 800 lb. rear arbitrarily. Most vendors wouldn't allow someone to do something that stupid.
If it's all objective, what numbers are we shooting for on the spreadsheet to equal optimum Starbucks driving?
The sheet can be useful but real world experience trumps a spreadsheet. One example of this is the fact that most fast S2k's run an insanely stiff front swaybar that would suggest understeer city. There's 20+ years of experience/data written on this forum. There are 5+ different configurations of Ohlins that you can find within 5 minutes of searching on here. Plenty of vendors to offer a setup for just about any use case. Most Off-the-Shelf options will handle plenty well for a street driver, just depending on their tolerance for stiffness. Also, since the cars are pretty expensive now, not many people trying to run $500 chinesium coil overs just for the stance.
I think the spreadsheet is more useful to somebody that already has an aftermarket setup and is considering different spring rates or something. For me, I've been running 850/700 for two years now. I'm curious how much of a change running 800 or 750 lbs. on the rear shifts the balance. Now there's no knowing until I actually do it but it gives me an idea. It also gives me a way to approximate it. If I increase my rear swaybar stiffness to something that would approximate that level of balance, I could try it out before buying and make a more educated decision. I think in that way, it can be useful. Now directing someone who is asking "What coilovers do I buy for a street car?" to a spreadsheet, I'm not so sure is useful. It can give a vague idea with stock as a baseline but I don't think that a stock car provides much of a useful baseline to conceptualize doubling the spring rate without actually trying it. The two setups are so radically different that a spreadsheet can't tell you much. Also, it's not like some novice is trying to run 400 lb. fronts, 800 lb. rear arbitrarily. Most vendors wouldn't allow someone to do something that stupid.
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TsukubaCody (11-17-2022)
11-17-2022, 10:16 AM
#34
If yes, that’s an improvement.
If no, it’s not.
My aero does not objectively improve the car. My wheels did not objectively improve the car.
Etc.
At this point, I would genuinely not want an S2000 if cool aero and using my CP035 were not an option. Subjectively I have improved the car.
BTW, placebo effect does not work if something has changed and you know exactly what did. My car rode differently as soon as I installed my HKS coilovers in place of my stock suspension. Did it objectively drive better or worse? I don’t know but it genuinely makes a pretty clear difference.
Good thing Honda conveniently wasn’t the end all be all on tuning, where VTEC should engage, tanabe touring medallion, and tires, huh? You’re trying to make the car fit you, just like the OP is.
11-17-2022, 11:32 AM
#35
Thread Starter
Lol, this thread really bringing out the best in us. Wonder how OP feeling at this point. Probably regretting ever asking.
If it's all objective, what numbers are we shooting for on the spreadsheet to equal optimum Starbucks driving?
The sheet can be useful but real world experience trumps a spreadsheet. One example of this is the fact that most fast S2k's run an insanely stiff front swaybar that would suggest understeer city. There's 20+ years of experience/data written on this forum. There are 5+ different configurations of Ohlins that you can find within 5 minutes of searching on here. Plenty of vendors to offer a setup for just about any use case. Most Off-the-Shelf options will handle plenty well for a street driver, just depending on their tolerance for stiffness. Also, since the cars are pretty expensive now, not many people trying to run $500 chinesium coil overs just for the stance.
I think the spreadsheet is more useful to somebody that already has an aftermarket setup and is considering different spring rates or something. For me, I've been running 850/700 for two years now. I'm curious how much of a change running 800 or 750 lbs. on the rear shifts the balance. Now there's no knowing until I actually do it but it gives me an idea. It also gives me a way to approximate it. If I increase my rear swaybar stiffness to something that would approximate that level of balance, I could try it out before buying and make a more educated decision. I think in that way, it can be useful. Now directing someone who is asking "What coilovers do I buy for a street car?" to a spreadsheet, I'm not so sure is useful. It can give a vague idea with stock as a baseline but I don't think that a stock car provides much of a useful baseline to conceptualize doubling the spring rate without actually trying it. The two setups are so radically different that a spreadsheet can't tell you much. Also, it's not like some novice is trying to run 400 lb. fronts, 800 lb. rear arbitrarily. Most vendors wouldn't allow someone to do something that stupid.
If it's all objective, what numbers are we shooting for on the spreadsheet to equal optimum Starbucks driving?
The sheet can be useful but real world experience trumps a spreadsheet. One example of this is the fact that most fast S2k's run an insanely stiff front swaybar that would suggest understeer city. There's 20+ years of experience/data written on this forum. There are 5+ different configurations of Ohlins that you can find within 5 minutes of searching on here. Plenty of vendors to offer a setup for just about any use case. Most Off-the-Shelf options will handle plenty well for a street driver, just depending on their tolerance for stiffness. Also, since the cars are pretty expensive now, not many people trying to run $500 chinesium coil overs just for the stance.
I think the spreadsheet is more useful to somebody that already has an aftermarket setup and is considering different spring rates or something. For me, I've been running 850/700 for two years now. I'm curious how much of a change running 800 or 750 lbs. on the rear shifts the balance. Now there's no knowing until I actually do it but it gives me an idea. It also gives me a way to approximate it. If I increase my rear swaybar stiffness to something that would approximate that level of balance, I could try it out before buying and make a more educated decision. I think in that way, it can be useful. Now directing someone who is asking "What coilovers do I buy for a street car?" to a spreadsheet, I'm not so sure is useful. It can give a vague idea with stock as a baseline but I don't think that a stock car provides much of a useful baseline to conceptualize doubling the spring rate without actually trying it. The two setups are so radically different that a spreadsheet can't tell you much. Also, it's not like some novice is trying to run 400 lb. fronts, 800 lb. rear arbitrarily. Most vendors wouldn't allow someone to do something that stupid.
Nothing more, i asked about sways because i was curious to see if that might be a factor. Apparently not. I guess some people get overly
excited than others..........
11-17-2022, 11:37 AM
#36
Site Moderator
Hey, its the internet. As far as Car Analogies spreed sheet im going to use it. Hell.... all im going to do is put a set of coilovers on the car.
Nothing more, i asked about sways because i was curious to see if that might be a factor. Apparently not. I guess some people get overly
excited than others..........
Nothing more, i asked about sways because i was curious to see if that might be a factor. Apparently not. I guess some people get overly
excited than others..........
I'm on GTMotoring coilovers which I'm pretty sure are buddy club but custom valved per Greg (GTMotoring) way back when.
11-17-2022, 11:45 AM
#37
Thread Starter
I'm a fan of a larger front sway on the AP2 (05), I put the whiteline one on mine years ago and I very much prefer how the car behaves since. I was tracking my car at the time and it settled it down a lot, lot less twitchy than before.
I'm on GTMotoring coilovers which I'm pretty sure are buddy club but custom valved per Greg (GTMotoring) way back when.
I'm on GTMotoring coilovers which I'm pretty sure are buddy club but custom valved per Greg (GTMotoring) way back when.
im just trying to find if a set of coilovers would give you a more planted feel on the road
more stability. I may be looking for too much, it may not be out there.
11-17-2022, 12:00 PM
#38
Site Moderator
No worries, ftr I don't track the car anymore, but it did make a noticeable difference. Coilovers may get you what you're after, if not, front sway would be the one other thing to change. It is an easy swap, honest.
11-17-2022, 12:20 PM
#39
Thread Starter
I'll do some more looking, im in no rush still leaning toward the PSS9s
11-23-2022, 10:23 AM
#40
I have a MY03... it was way too twitchy and oversteer'y when I bought it. Way too edgy. (my past FR experience/history was a modded S13 in the '90s, and also a Tundra and Tacoma)
Swapped for a thicker MY00/01 FSB and thinner MY06+ RSB for a more neutral feel and closer to CR's F/R bias ratio.
Best mod I ever did. Car doesn't feel scary and sketchy to drive anymore. Feels super planted and grippy, while still giving me a little off-throttle-oversteer & control when I really want it... perfect balance for me.
Stock dampers/springs.
Swapped for a thicker MY00/01 FSB and thinner MY06+ RSB for a more neutral feel and closer to CR's F/R bias ratio.
Best mod I ever did. Car doesn't feel scary and sketchy to drive anymore. Feels super planted and grippy, while still giving me a little off-throttle-oversteer & control when I really want it... perfect balance for me.
Stock dampers/springs.