Brake upgrade effects on bias
01-05-2021, 10:50 AM
#101
Good observation.
There is a bracket included with the spoon calipers, to allow the radial mount Spoon caliper to mount to the cars lug ears. The Ballade kit apparently reuses this bracket, and just adds the needed spacers to radially space the caliper faether from center.
This implies the Spoon caliper spacing in vs out (or left vs right) remains the same as when used with oem rotors. That would mean the Ballade kits rotor hat positions the rotor ring at the same position as stock, in vs out (or left vs right).
Since the Wilwood rotor hat mentioned previously would position rotor ring inwards from stock, by about .165" (about 4mm), the caliper bracket would need to move by that much. But since bracket mounts on outer end of lug ears, you'd need a thinner bracket (machine existing Spoon bracket, or make a new one), which would then probably not be strong enough.
Maybe there is another Wilwood rotor hat that would work.
There is a bracket included with the spoon calipers, to allow the radial mount Spoon caliper to mount to the cars lug ears. The Ballade kit apparently reuses this bracket, and just adds the needed spacers to radially space the caliper faether from center.
This implies the Spoon caliper spacing in vs out (or left vs right) remains the same as when used with oem rotors. That would mean the Ballade kits rotor hat positions the rotor ring at the same position as stock, in vs out (or left vs right).
Since the Wilwood rotor hat mentioned previously would position rotor ring inwards from stock, by about .165" (about 4mm), the caliper bracket would need to move by that much. But since bracket mounts on outer end of lug ears, you'd need a thinner bracket (machine existing Spoon bracket, or make a new one), which would then probably not be strong enough.
Maybe there is another Wilwood rotor hat that would work.
01-05-2021, 11:06 AM
#103
Found one!
There is also a Wilwood Road Race BBK, with thicker rotor, and more robust hat. This hat has less offset. Very close to stock offset. Should work very well.
Rotor hat with less offset:
https://www.wilwood.com/Hats/HatProd?itemno=170-14968
It is .7 lb heavier than the other one, so now weight savings is only 1.3 lb or so. But way bigger than stock and lighter too is still a big win.
So then sub this hat along with other parts listed above, and I think Ballade kit could be made to work, with simple tweak of bracket spacing.
OR! If you are gonnna use Spoon calipers, the beauty of radial mounting is its so easy to adjust radial spacing. You could easily make your own radial spacers out of some very thick wall 6061 aluminum tube (for example, metalsdepot.com). Just cut to length, then get longer, hardened bolts.
There is also a Wilwood Road Race BBK, with thicker rotor, and more robust hat. This hat has less offset. Very close to stock offset. Should work very well.
Rotor hat with less offset:
https://www.wilwood.com/Hats/HatProd?itemno=170-14968
It is .7 lb heavier than the other one, so now weight savings is only 1.3 lb or so. But way bigger than stock and lighter too is still a big win.
So then sub this hat along with other parts listed above, and I think Ballade kit could be made to work, with simple tweak of bracket spacing.
OR! If you are gonnna use Spoon calipers, the beauty of radial mounting is its so easy to adjust radial spacing. You could easily make your own radial spacers out of some very thick wall 6061 aluminum tube (for example, metalsdepot.com). Just cut to length, then get longer, hardened bolts.
01-06-2021, 08:37 AM
#105
Wouldn't this rotor ring be closer to the size of the ballade 330mm than the one you originally specified? https://www.wilwood.com/Rotors/RotorList1?appl=&rtDia=13.00
I think they have hats for this rotor ring that get close 0.490 inches offset and 0.290 inches offset.
I think they have hats for this rotor ring that get close 0.490 inches offset and 0.290 inches offset.
Last edited by michaelnyden; 01-06-2021 at 08:42 AM.
01-06-2021, 09:58 AM
#106
Those are some expensive rotors! Like twice the price. They are designed to use a huge snap ring, instead of bolts, to connect ring to hat. Its a special design for racing, to allow ring to expand and contract with heat cycles more independently from hat.
Waaaaay over kill for Spoon caliper or stock caliper based bbk.
The difference between 12.88 and 13.00 inch rotor is only .06 radial difference at caliper. Thats just 1.5mm.
Vendors often round off to nearest .5", so the Ballade rotors might actually be between 12.75" - 13.00". So no point in going crazy matching to Nth degree.
Especially since its cheaper to make a new caliper mounting bracket than pay for the Ballade kit and discard the rotors. In which case matching exact dimensions of Ballade one piece rotor are moot.
Waaaaay over kill for Spoon caliper or stock caliper based bbk.
The difference between 12.88 and 13.00 inch rotor is only .06 radial difference at caliper. Thats just 1.5mm.
Vendors often round off to nearest .5", so the Ballade rotors might actually be between 12.75" - 13.00". So no point in going crazy matching to Nth degree.
Especially since its cheaper to make a new caliper mounting bracket than pay for the Ballade kit and discard the rotors. In which case matching exact dimensions of Ballade one piece rotor are moot.
01-31-2021, 07:35 PM
#108
Would installing a C43 kit on the front (+7%) with Urge rear rotors be enough front bias to run the same compound on a 255 square setup without the rears locking up first?
Any thoughts?
Any thoughts?
08-03-2021, 09:54 AM
#109
Probably one of the most helpful Brake threads.
The new Renegade Motorsports kit should be added here too.
The new Renegade Motorsports kit should be added here too.
08-05-2021, 06:42 AM
#110
