TRACK: Lap Attack! Series @ PGP Motorsports Park
10-13-2010, 10:13 AM
#301
I agree, the Novice deal should only applies to Street Tire and you don't "enter" the class, it's just an opportunity to hand out more hardware to hook more people in. So it only two classes with the Novice overlay effect.
10-13-2010, 10:16 AM
#302
Registered User
Originally Posted by RT,Oct 13 2010, 11:09 AM
... don't spend too many brain cells, it's just a stupid plastic trophy
Fixed the font for you... old guy.
10-13-2010, 10:43 AM
#304
Registered User
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by GEARHEAD,Oct 13 2010, 07:42 AM
I like it. It hurts the FWD class, especially FWD on R-comps. It's their own damn fault for buying a FWD I guess. It should add some great competition with Street Tire in the target ~1:15 range. Race tire will have more competition at the top with AWD and RWD battling together.
Clarifications:
1. Can we add that all competing vehicles must have a VIN? This would allow non-street registered racecars like spec-Miatas but would exclude a DSR or Vancouver Special. I believe the intent is to race production street cars.
2. Race Tires. DOT or open to all slicks?
3. Can Novice run Race Tires?
Note: I agree that 9 trophies for roughly 30 entries is plenty. If you add a few classes, half the drivers get trophies. Where's the sport in that?
Clarifications:
1. Can we add that all competing vehicles must have a VIN? This would allow non-street registered racecars like spec-Miatas but would exclude a DSR or Vancouver Special. I believe the intent is to race production street cars.
2. Race Tires. DOT or open to all slicks?
3. Can Novice run Race Tires?
Note: I agree that 9 trophies for roughly 30 entries is plenty. If you add a few classes, half the drivers get trophies. Where's the sport in that?
Unregistered cars, dedicated race cars, kit cars, and some absurd hardware would constitute a fourth class at a later date. Call it "Unlimited" or something.
Novice entries are not eligable for season trophies, so if you think you got what it takes, skip the Novice action.
If you play out the laptimes for each bucket, it really starts to make sense. Just about ANYTHING with four wheels can run a 1:17, maybe even a 1:15.
10-13-2010, 10:50 AM
#305
Registered User
Thread Starter
Novice on Race Tires? Haha. You paid your money for the E-Ticket ride. You gotta play with the big boys.
I have a Better Name for the top tier class... "Semi-Pro." Kinda like the movie.
I have a Better Name for the top tier class... "Semi-Pro." Kinda like the movie.
10-13-2010, 12:31 PM
#308
Originally Posted by GEARHEAD,Oct 13 2010, 10:16 AM
RT's just trophyless and bitter.
Fixed the font for you... old guy.
Fixed the font for you... old guy.
10-13-2010, 12:44 PM
#310
Originally Posted by GEARHEAD,Oct 12 2010, 08:28 PM
What is the specific desired outcome? I understand generally what we are looking for but it just occurrd to me that everyone may be solving a different problem. So far what I've heard was that we need more entries such as Miata drivers but they need to have a chance at winning. It seems that there is good competition in the 1:15-1:16 range.
Hard to find the perfect solution to an undefined problem.
Hard to find the perfect solution to an undefined problem.
1) Encourage participation among more than just die-hard track guys
2) Create a group of classes that are reasonably competitive
The current structure does not accomplish either. My POS Miata stands no chance of winning, but more significantly, it's several thousand dollars of upgrades (probably more like $10-15k) from even being slightly competitive with the other RWD cars.
Jerry's categories (race/street/n00b) might help with the first, but not the second. Race tires is going to pretty consistently be Petty, Bundy, Floyd, O'Farrell (who would stand a good chance of winning during the winter). Street tire would be competitive after everyone other than those 4 guys goes back to Star Specs or whatever street tire they want, but then you're left with the same thing you have now - FWD, AWD, and small displacement RWD cars have no chance against the S2000s and Lotuses. A few AWD guys might do good during monsoons. I like the n00b class as far as handing out hardware and roping guys in, but once someone wins n00b class with a 1:22 and realizes 3rd place in street tire is a 1:13, they might lose interest in a hurry.
A hybrid of Ray's/Jerry's proposal:
1) Street tire (UTCQ > 140)
2) FI
3) NA < 1.9*
4) NA >= 1.9*
B) Novice category for street tire equipped cars; not tracked for season; can only podium once
Out of 30 entries, you're looking at 10-15 in street tire, 5-8 FI, (including the 4 or 5 fastest entries), and 5-10 in both NA categories. Podium threshold times would be ~1:18, 1:10, 1:16, 1:14.
Who benefits? Anyone running street tires, anyone with a normally aspirated RWD car. All the classes have good fields which makes for more interesting spectating/bench racing too.
Who gets hurt? FI FWD cars are hosed. The two guys who run the black Evo (who will now be looking at 4th and 5th instead of 1st and 2nd every time). A prelude or other largish engine FWD car.
Who is neutral? Small displacement FWD cars (probably won't be winning regardless of category, but could do good in street tire especially if it's raining).
Seems like a net winner.
* I used 1.9 instead of 1850... couldn't think of any 1.9 engines that would be an issue.