TRACK: Lap Attack! Series @ PGP Motorsports Park
10-13-2010, 12:47 PM
#311
Registered User
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by WestSideBilly,Oct 13 2010, 01:44 PM
I think it's two fold:
1) Encourage participation among more than just die-hard track guys
2) Create a group of classes that are reasonably competitive
The current structure does not accomplish either. My POS Miata stands no chance of winning, but more significantly, it's several thousand dollars of upgrades (probably more like $10-15k) from even being slightly competitive with the other RWD cars.
Jerry's categories (race/street/n00b) might help with the first, but not the second. Race tires is going to pretty consistently be Petty, Bundy, Floyd, O'Farrell (who would stand a good chance of winning during the winter). Street tire would be competitive after everyone other than those 4 guys goes back to Star Specs or whatever street tire they want, but then you're left with the same thing you have now - FWD, AWD, and small displacement RWD cars have no chance against the S2000s and Lotuses. A few AWD guys might do good during monsoons. I like the n00b class as far as handing out hardware and roping guys in, but once someone wins n00b class with a 1:22 and realizes 3rd place in street tire is a 1:13, they might lose interest in a hurry.
A hybrid of Ray's/Jerry's proposal:
1) Street tire (UTCQ > 140)
2) FI
3) NA < 1.9*
4) NA >= 1.9*
B) Novice category for street tire equipped cars; not tracked for season; can only podium once
Out of 30 entries, you're looking at 10-15 in street tire, 5-8 FI, (including the 4 or 5 fastest entries), and 5-10 in both NA categories. Podium threshold times would be ~1:18, 1:10, 1:16, 1:14.
Who benefits? Anyone running street tires, anyone with a normally aspirated RWD car. All the classes have good fields which makes for more interesting spectating/bench racing too.
Who gets hurt? FI FWD cars are hosed. The two guys who run the black Evo (who will now be looking at 4th and 5th instead of 1st and 2nd every time). A prelude or other largish engine FWD car.
Who is neutral? Small displacement FWD cars (probably won't be winning regardless of category, but could do good in street tire especially if it's raining).
Seems like a net winner.
* I used 1.9 instead of 1850... couldn't think of any 1.9 engines that would be an issue.
1) Encourage participation among more than just die-hard track guys
2) Create a group of classes that are reasonably competitive
The current structure does not accomplish either. My POS Miata stands no chance of winning, but more significantly, it's several thousand dollars of upgrades (probably more like $10-15k) from even being slightly competitive with the other RWD cars.
Jerry's categories (race/street/n00b) might help with the first, but not the second. Race tires is going to pretty consistently be Petty, Bundy, Floyd, O'Farrell (who would stand a good chance of winning during the winter). Street tire would be competitive after everyone other than those 4 guys goes back to Star Specs or whatever street tire they want, but then you're left with the same thing you have now - FWD, AWD, and small displacement RWD cars have no chance against the S2000s and Lotuses. A few AWD guys might do good during monsoons. I like the n00b class as far as handing out hardware and roping guys in, but once someone wins n00b class with a 1:22 and realizes 3rd place in street tire is a 1:13, they might lose interest in a hurry.
A hybrid of Ray's/Jerry's proposal:
1) Street tire (UTCQ > 140)
2) FI
3) NA < 1.9*
4) NA >= 1.9*
B) Novice category for street tire equipped cars; not tracked for season; can only podium once
Out of 30 entries, you're looking at 10-15 in street tire, 5-8 FI, (including the 4 or 5 fastest entries), and 5-10 in both NA categories. Podium threshold times would be ~1:18, 1:10, 1:16, 1:14.
Who benefits? Anyone running street tires, anyone with a normally aspirated RWD car. All the classes have good fields which makes for more interesting spectating/bench racing too.
Who gets hurt? FI FWD cars are hosed. The two guys who run the black Evo (who will now be looking at 4th and 5th instead of 1st and 2nd every time). A prelude or other largish engine FWD car.
Who is neutral? Small displacement FWD cars (probably won't be winning regardless of category, but could do good in street tire especially if it's raining).
Seems like a net winner.
* I used 1.9 instead of 1850... couldn't think of any 1.9 engines that would be an issue.
10-13-2010, 01:14 PM
#313
Originally Posted by WestSideBilly,Oct 13 2010, 12:44 PM
I think it's two fold:
1) Encourage participation among more than just die-hard track guys
2) Create a group of classes that are reasonably competitive
The current structure does not accomplish either. My POS Miata stands no chance of winning, but more significantly, it's several thousand dollars of upgrades (probably more like $10-15k) from even being slightly competitive with the other RWD cars.
Jerry's categories (race/street/n00b) might help with the first, but not the second. Race tires is going to pretty consistently be Petty, Bundy, Floyd, O'Farrell (who would stand a good chance of winning during the winter). Street tire would be competitive after everyone other than those 4 guys goes back to Star Specs or whatever street tire they want, but then you're left with the same thing you have now - FWD, AWD, and small displacement RWD cars have no chance against the S2000s and Lotuses. A few AWD guys might do good during monsoons. I like the n00b class as far as handing out hardware and roping guys in, but once someone wins n00b class with a 1:22 and realizes 3rd place in street tire is a 1:13, they might lose interest in a hurry.
A hybrid of Ray's/Jerry's proposal:
1) Street tire (UTCQ > 140)
2) FI
3) NA < 1.9*
4) NA >= 1.9*
B) Novice category for street tire equipped cars; not tracked for season; can only podium once
Out of 30 entries, you're looking at 10-15 in street tire, 5-8 FI, (including the 4 or 5 fastest entries), and 5-10 in both NA categories. Podium threshold times would be ~1:18, 1:10, 1:16, 1:14.
Who benefits? Anyone running street tires, anyone with a normally aspirated RWD car. All the classes have good fields which makes for more interesting spectating/bench racing too.
Who gets hurt? FI FWD cars are hosed. The two guys who run the black Evo (who will now be looking at 4th and 5th instead of 1st and 2nd every time). A prelude or other largish engine FWD car.
Who is neutral? Small displacement FWD cars (probably won't be winning regardless of category, but could do good in street tire especially if it's raining).
Seems like a net winner.
* I used 1.9 instead of 1850... couldn't think of any 1.9 engines that would be an issue.
1) Encourage participation among more than just die-hard track guys
2) Create a group of classes that are reasonably competitive
The current structure does not accomplish either. My POS Miata stands no chance of winning, but more significantly, it's several thousand dollars of upgrades (probably more like $10-15k) from even being slightly competitive with the other RWD cars.
Jerry's categories (race/street/n00b) might help with the first, but not the second. Race tires is going to pretty consistently be Petty, Bundy, Floyd, O'Farrell (who would stand a good chance of winning during the winter). Street tire would be competitive after everyone other than those 4 guys goes back to Star Specs or whatever street tire they want, but then you're left with the same thing you have now - FWD, AWD, and small displacement RWD cars have no chance against the S2000s and Lotuses. A few AWD guys might do good during monsoons. I like the n00b class as far as handing out hardware and roping guys in, but once someone wins n00b class with a 1:22 and realizes 3rd place in street tire is a 1:13, they might lose interest in a hurry.
A hybrid of Ray's/Jerry's proposal:
1) Street tire (UTCQ > 140)
2) FI
3) NA < 1.9*
4) NA >= 1.9*
B) Novice category for street tire equipped cars; not tracked for season; can only podium once
Out of 30 entries, you're looking at 10-15 in street tire, 5-8 FI, (including the 4 or 5 fastest entries), and 5-10 in both NA categories. Podium threshold times would be ~1:18, 1:10, 1:16, 1:14.
Who benefits? Anyone running street tires, anyone with a normally aspirated RWD car. All the classes have good fields which makes for more interesting spectating/bench racing too.
Who gets hurt? FI FWD cars are hosed. The two guys who run the black Evo (who will now be looking at 4th and 5th instead of 1st and 2nd every time). A prelude or other largish engine FWD car.
Who is neutral? Small displacement FWD cars (probably won't be winning regardless of category, but could do good in street tire especially if it's raining).
Seems like a net winner.
* I used 1.9 instead of 1850... couldn't think of any 1.9 engines that would be an issue.
10-13-2010, 01:23 PM
#314
Registered User
Thread Starter
Moot point. There haven't been any FI+Street Tire entries except in the AWD catagory. Besides, the car isn't your limitation. Seat time is.
Further, tuning the setup for Street Tires or for Race Tires is two completely different exercises.
Further, tuning the setup for Street Tires or for Race Tires is two completely different exercises.
10-13-2010, 01:30 PM
#315
Originally Posted by jerrypeterson,Oct 13 2010, 01:23 PM
Besides, the car isn't your limitation. Seat time is.
And i'm suprised i'm the only one that entered with FI/street tires. If so guess i'm assed out for a competative class. I'll have to run it in R comp FI I guess.
10-13-2010, 01:31 PM
#316
Originally Posted by jerrypeterson,Oct 13 2010, 01:23 PM
Further, tuning the setup for Street Tires or for Race Tires is two completely different exercises.
10-13-2010, 01:38 PM
#317
Registered User
Originally Posted by s2000Junky,Oct 13 2010, 02:14 PM
Guys like myself who are FI but running street tires will get hosed also. I would say that is a farely common class for those that arent interested in envesting time/money in swapping to R comps for this event. We want it to be easy, roll up and run. I think part of the idea here after all too is to see who can build/drive the fastest "street car" ...well street cars run "street tires" Your going to have to add another class for FI R comp and FI Street I think.
10-13-2010, 01:43 PM
#318
Registered User
Originally Posted by jerrypeterson,Oct 13 2010, 02:23 PM
Moot point. There haven't been any FI+Street Tire entries except in the AWD catagory. Besides, the car isn't your limitation. Seat time is.
Further, tuning the setup for Street Tires or for Race Tires is two completely different exercises.
Further, tuning the setup for Street Tires or for Race Tires is two completely different exercises.
10-13-2010, 02:00 PM
#319
Originally Posted by s2000Junky,Oct 13 2010, 02:14 PM
Guys like myself who are FI but running street tires will get hosed also. I would say that is a farely common class for those that arent interested in envesting time/money in swapping to R comps for this event. We want it to be easy, roll up and run. I think part of the idea here after all too is to see who can build/drive the fastest "street car" ...well street cars run "street tires" Your going to have to add another class for FI R comp and FI Street I think.
... which makes me think it needs changing...
