GEARHEAD

[QUOTE=WestSideBilly,Oct 12 2010, 10:29 AM] R-comp alone is not going to make a Miata competitive.

s2000Junky

This is the aspect that is appealing to me also. I'm down with some simple ruling/classes to separate some of the field ...to give other guys a chance. But ultimately what’s appealing is that it’s open to what ever...”run what you brung” and see how fast you can go.

I look forward to getting out there and placing my mark in the field, I’ve got a fairly unique s2000 with some capable driving skills, should be interesting for sure. But what’s interesting is the competition and being timed. So I guess that means lap attack only? I might go out on rare occasion just to do some lapping, but ultimately that gets boring to me. I can go do that out in the back 40 for free. Competition is what makes it fun.

WestSideBilly

The auto-x comparison is not 100% valid - most autocross courses do not see speeds approaching/exceeding 75 MPH (for the fast cars).

A DP Miata weighs 1750 lbs and has maybe 105 WHP - over 16 lbs/hp. Your car is 275 WHP and weighs something like 2900 (10.5 lbs/hp)? Bundy's car is probably around 11 lbs/hp? You guys will eat up any NA Miata in the long straights. I do think a DP could hang with/beat a stockish NA S2000 or Lotus (on R comps), though. And if you raced just the north course (eliminating the two straights), probably win outright.


Agree that FWD gets hosed. The faster FWD cars would be mid pack once they got tossed in with the S2000s etc. Unless you go to the extreme of solo 2 rules, someone is always going to get hosed. When Jerry and I were talking about classes to track lap records, we at one point were up around 25 classes.

luder_5555

This is a fact that I am well aware of, and I am not trying to create a situation in which I will win. I am simply trying to make more people be more competitive so that they will continue to be interested.

A situation where a person could show up with an s2k or miata that they have put ~$2k and be competitive is going to be much more appealing than knowing that even if you put $5k into engine mods and $2k in suspension, you still have little chance of making the podium.

I would still like to try somethng like has been stated. NA/FI/street/r-comp combination. The issue will be getting enough people in enough classes to make it worth while.

jerrypeterson

Please continue the debate. I'm getting some fresh ideas.

RT

OKOKOK, how's this ..... scrap all the drive train classifications and use these 5 classes:
GTO FI
GTO NA
GTU FI
GTU NA
Street Tire (doesn't matter what engine config since grip is the limiter)

GTO/GTU engine size cutoff TBD (to be debated)

GEARHEAD

Throwing out ideas for the sake of brainstorming:

Redline Time Attack Style - each class allows specific mods. Could add SCCA Solo type rules like GT-R's must run Modified Minimum, etc.
Street - street tires, bolt-ons
Modified - R-compounds, power adders like SC/Turbo/NOS?
Open -

S2K Challenge Style - modifications have point values and classes are based on accumulated mod points. Perhaps the base vehicle could be given a point value (yes, I can hear the bench racing already).
Stock - .5 pts Max
Street - 3.5 pts Max
Modified - 10 pts Max
Unlimited -

AERO
0.25* = air dam bumper, air dam or any add-on lip excluding non-CR OEM lip.
0.50* = full front aero package (air dam bumper, lip, canards, splitter, wheel spats, etc.)
0.25 = rear diffuser
0.25 = Non OEM or modified rear bumper
0.25 = rear spoiler (none-OEM)
0.50 = level 1 wing (CR wing or smaller)
1.00 = level 2 wing (APR GTC-200 wing or smaller)
1.50 = level 2 wing with riser (APR GTC-200 wing with riser)
2.00 = level 3 wing (any adjustable wing bigger than APR GTC-200)

TIRE/WHEEL
2.50 = R-compound tires (NT01, RA1, R888, A048, PSC)
3.50 = R-compound tires (R6, V700, R1)
5.00 = R-compound tires (V710, A6, C91)
0.50 = any deviation from original OEM staggered wheel setup up to 9" wide front and/or rear.
0.75 = any deviation from original OEM staggered wheel setup wider than 9" front and/or rear.
0.75 = 245-255 front tire
1.00 = 265+ front tire
0.25 = 265+ rear tire

POWER
0.25 = OEM 2.2L motor
0.25 = any aftermarket intake system or modification to OEM intake
0.25 = any aftermarket header
0.25 = test pipe
0.25 = cat-back exhaust
1.50 = engine internal modifications (non-performance enhancing modifications excluded)
2.50 = forced induction (inclusive of ECU, header and intake modifications)
0.75 = aftermarket ECU, ECU reflash or OEM ECU swap

SUSPENSION
1.00 = fixed-height none-adjustable shocks with up to 400lbs/in spring (including CR shock and spring).
2.00 = adjustable shocks or coilover suspension

DRIVE TRAIN
0.50 = non-OEM LSD

WEIGHT
0.25 = soft top removal + hardtop
0.25 = passenger seat removal
0.25 = rear trim removal (unless necessary for installation of safety equipment)
0.25 = light weight doors
0.25 = AC/audio removal

FREE MOD
- any TW140+ street tires
- lightweight battery
- lightweight hood, trunk, fender
- spare tire & tool removal
- any alignment
- camber kit, bump steer kit, tie rod end, roll center adjuster
- updating or backdating anything except CR performance-enhancing parts
- bucket seats
- steering wheel
- brake duct
- aftermarket brake systems
- any sway bars
- any add-on chassis reinforcement
- any interior removal as required for safety equipment installation
- high-flow catalytic converter
- any spacer
- OEM spoiler

SAFETY (applies to Modified and Street classes only, and all must be able to pass SCCA inspection)
-0.25** = roll bar installation
-0.50** = roll bar installation with bucket seat and FIA-approved 5+ point harness
-0.75** = full roll cage installation with bucket seat and FIA-approved 5+ point harness

WestSideBilly

Just throwing out numbers, let's say 3.0L as the cutoff.

GTO FI = uhh... ZR1?
GTO NA = Z06, various Ferraris, Lambos, Porsches, NSX, etc
GTU FI = Evo, STi/WRX, FI Lotus, Bundy's Miata, the one Atom, Jared, Junky, etc
GTU NA = Miata, S2000, Lotus, Civics, Atom

Street Tire = Everyone that can't win one of the above categories

GTO category just doesn't seem relevant, unless the cutoff is something small (1.9L?)

GTO FI = Jared, FI Atoms, Evos, STIs (most of the really fast cars end up here)
GTO NA = S2000, Z06 (competitive class?)
GTU FI = Bundy's Miata, FI Lotus (this becomes a very small field)
GTU NA = Miata, Lotus, older Civics (which actually have a chance here)
Street tire

With FI there's no split that makes sense (because so many of them are 2.0)... so all FI go together? The FI FWD cars are once again hosed.

WestSideBilly

Jared, only downside to that is that now you're having to do some "official" tech inspections... which probably goes outside the realm of Time Attack.

RT

Jared, you're making me dizzy (oh, that's just my bifocals reading that small font )

Did a little thinking on GTO/GTU cut-off and I think
GTO = 2200cc and larger
GTU = smaller than 2200cc

...... at first I thought 2000cc break point but that splits the AP1's and AP2's which isn't sporting and 1900cc feeds the S2000's to the wolves.

What engine displacement is that Atom running 1:06's or some crazy shit? 2.4?