luder_5555

So would I. I have been hitting all of the miata forums trying to drum up some cars, but there just doesn't seem to be the interest that I thought that there would be.

I think that the biggest issue is that all of the hardcore small track guys are autocrossing, and are all burnt out from the long season. The thing that seems to be a limiting factor is that the people that would come out rain or shine are very competitive, and can't stand to not be competitive.

Something needs to be done to make more people feel like they could win, or at least podium. I know that it is going to be impossible to make enough classes to make everything even, but people like me who are uber-competitive, will not come to an event that they have no chance at winning when they can auto-x and win.

s2000Junky

Street tire/R comp class

luder_5555

Again, that won't do anything. s2k (besides jared) on street tires will run 1:14 at best, miata will run 1:15. That's not going to keep up with the atoms, bundy, or jared. So unless you make all of the top cars run r-comps and all of the slow cars run street, the same problem is going to exist.

If you do try to run r-comps, you are not going to break 1:10 without spending $10-15k on improvments. (less if you can do it all yourself)

Now if you want to force the fast cars to run street tires, and let the slow cars run r-comps then it will even things out a little. But then all the fast cars would just leave.

There is just no realistic way to expect us mortals to compete against the likes of Jared, bundy, and petty.

I personally will continue to come whether i have a chance at winning or not. But I am trying to find a format that would make more people excited about coming out so that we can continue to have these events. Perhapse coming out and participating in one of these events would give you an actual idea about who comes out once, and who keeps comong back. Its the people who only come out once and get discouraged that we should be trying to get excited about coming back over and over. Otherwise its going to be like this last weekend where only a handful of the regulars register and they cancel the event cause they can't justify reserving the entire track for 6 or 7 people.

s2000Junky

Not sure what to tell you except spend more money on your car or learn to drive it faster or both. A street tire/R comp class would seem to be the only logical class separation for that track if there were to be one at all... which I believe is what you are wining about. Would you feel better if you won by having a handicap? I wouldn't. If this were the big track I would be inclined to separate two classes by power output.

I'm looking at it from a logical standpoint of what single modification will provide the largest distinguishment between times on that track. I'm I missing something?

Once I have established my car as consistently reliable again (which after this season... was a disaster) then I plan to participate in this event... street tire class or not. Since this car is my daily, I will be running street tires, obviously I would be more competitive in that class if there was one, but if not it wont stop me from participating anyway.

luder_5555

I still think that FI (aftermarket) vs NA would be a much better split. The fastest NA car is either RT (I think that his elise is NA) running about 1:13-14 or John floyd running about the same.

While I agree that having classes based on tires would help some, the truth is that street tire vs street tire or R-comp vs R-comp the top 3 or 4 guys are still going to be 3-4 seconds faster than the next fastest grouping of cars.

I still think that an NA 4 or 6 cyl class would be something to try because the fastest car would be running about 1:13 or 1:14, with about 5 or 6 people in a realistic battle for next two podium spots.

If we did a tire class it would all come down to which of the top drivers decided to run the r-comp class, and who decided to dominate the street class.

ALFYonso

[QUOTE=jerrypeterson,Oct 11 2010, 08:30 PM] What I am saying is if you guys want premium competition time slots, specifically weekends, there needs to be a higher level of commitment.

RT

If its too easy to change classes then nothing is gained ..... the same guy w/ pit crew will run "flat - out" in both classes w/ same car (changing tires between heats) and he'll go home with six trophy's instead of three. Slightly more of a challenge for him to bring six cars vs three cars with two sets of tires each.
Most effective (but still not very effective) is slow class vs fast class. Logical way to generically break that out is HP ..... easiest way to differentiate that is ...... FI/NA.
In the end the lame plastic trophy isn't what matters so if they'd just post up laptimes with car and person easily identified you could see who's ass you kicked and who kicked yours ...... done!

GEARHEAD

I think two classes based on tires would be the best choice. Last year, I managed a few 1:10.XXX laps with bolt-ons (intake, header, exhaust) and worn out V710's. With good tires, dialed in suspension, and driven well, there are several car models that could beat that time (Lotus, Atom, Vette, Porsche, S2000, Sti, Evo, etc). A street tire class ought to favor the lighter underpowered cars like Miata vs. a Vette that can't put the power down with streets and has to carry an extra 1000 pounds in the corners.
I see about a 3 second difference between good street tires and mediocre R-comps. Bob knocked off about 3 seconds between qualifying and 1st session with the change from sticker NT-01's to Hoosier A6's. Chris P went from 1:13's on R888's to 1:11's on R6's in his Exige. If I can drop 2 seconds going from R888's to Hoosiers, I'll run a laptime of... Tires make a big difference.
The pond in which we are swimming is still relatively small. There are probably 2 dozen + local autocrossers/cars that could all run times with Kevin and Bob - even a few NA Miata's. I'm sure there are some local track guys that could kick our asses as well. Once some of these people realize how much fun the PGP track is, the competition landscape could change dramatically. When adding classes, this should be considered.

For reference my fastest laps so far:
Blown R888 R-Comps: 1:09.6
NA OLD V710 R-Comps: 1:10.9
NA RE070 Street Tires: 1:13.X

s2000Junky

There you go

WestSideBilly

R-comp alone is not going to make a Miata competitive. An R-comp Miata may be comparable to a street S2000. There's no way an NA Miata is going to drop a sub 1:10, I don't care who is driving it, unless you're talking about a monster Miata or something similar.

Personally I would scrap the drive classes and go to the following:

4/6 cyl | Street tire
4/6 cyl | Race tire (anything under 150 UTCQ)
8/10/12/FI | Street tire
8/10/12/FI | Race tire

The only people who really get screwed are the FWD guys. But there's only 4 or 5 of them showing up most events, so it's a small loss, and a few of them are competitive with the S2000s anyway. The AWD cars can hold their own.

No matter what you split the classes into, though, you're always going to alienate some group. How many Miata guys are going to come knowing they have to run against S2000s and Lotuses? Maybe a few who just enjoy the cars and people, but really, if you have no chance of winning an event, why bother? A PGP lapping day is $125, a substantially better value than $85 for a lap attack.