Route 26 Drive Concerns
06-11-2003, 09:48 AM
#11
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Saturday was out of control in the group up front. Period. Too many risks were taken. No one can debate that.
When I called my wife Saturday night I told her that this was definately the last time I was going to make this type of trip. For me personally I thought it makes no sense to take these kind of risks when I have so many opportunities for performance driving on the track. Now I know nobody was holding a gun to my head saying you have to try to keep up, but my competitive tendencies definitely got the best of me. It wasn't until we got to the hotel and I reflected on the drive that I realized the number of close calls every one of us had.
Sunday I felt much better. Please comment on my style leading the drive on Sunday. My approach was moderate down the straights, aggressive in the turns, but ONLY when sight lines were good. I never passed in a no passing zone and slowed significantly before any blind section. Was I a Saint, no... The weather helped too. The roads were dry and warm and the windshield was always clear.
I'm still not sure that I will do this drive again. I guess I've come to appreciate performance driving in a safe
When I called my wife Saturday night I told her that this was definately the last time I was going to make this type of trip. For me personally I thought it makes no sense to take these kind of risks when I have so many opportunities for performance driving on the track. Now I know nobody was holding a gun to my head saying you have to try to keep up, but my competitive tendencies definitely got the best of me. It wasn't until we got to the hotel and I reflected on the drive that I realized the number of close calls every one of us had.
Sunday I felt much better. Please comment on my style leading the drive on Sunday. My approach was moderate down the straights, aggressive in the turns, but ONLY when sight lines were good. I never passed in a no passing zone and slowed significantly before any blind section. Was I a Saint, no... The weather helped too. The roads were dry and warm and the windshield was always clear.
I'm still not sure that I will do this drive again. I guess I've come to appreciate performance driving in a safe
06-11-2003, 10:01 AM
#12
Thread Starter
Dave (Viper) can't remember his login so he asked me to post his reply (apparently he can read the posts without signing in, but can't reply). Anyway, here are Dave's comments via an email to me:
Carmen,
I have no idea what my old sign in is or was, so maybe you can post this for me.
I was the driver of the viper and am responding through a request to do so. Myself and Brian K attend track events and are pretty comfortable with our cars well over 100mph. I will admit that I was driving too fast and I know why. I forgot where I was, a public highway!
April - Relax, spins do happen to the best of us. I am pretty sure I know the corner where you spun. It wasn't your bald tires(also considered home made slicks). Bald tires provide a better contact patch and therefore better grip. It was driver error. Now don't bite my head off even pro drivers have to stand in front of a camera and admit they made an error. This was a tricky turn, "falling away, unloading suspension" type turn. There are two things you don't do on this type of turn; don't lift, and don't turn the wheels when the suspension unloads. You had to lift, why? This was not a track and there is no run-off. What's my point? Too fast for THAT corner on THAT road. Not pointing a finger, I took it too fast also, just trying to prevent it from happening to you again.
Hardtopguy - "viper almost bit the dust.." Not really. I say that to illustrate my point. I "rotated" the car. Yes it is a track term. Rotation can drop seconds off lap times. My quickest lap at Mid-Ohio had plenty of rotation in the corners. On Rt 26 it did scare me, not because the car rotated, but when I straightened it I was looking at a mailbox!! Again, forgot where I was. Not a track, no run-off. I was too fast for THAT corner on THAT road. Brian K was able to master a four wheel drift at Beaverun Raceway, and cut seconds off his lap times. Lap after lap he was "rotating" his S without any danger of fear. By the way, I couldn't keep up with him even though I have roughly 200 more horses.
I know most of us have a competitive nature, and when one car goes fast most of us will try and keep up. I apoligize to Carmen and anyone else that I may have tempted into driving too fast on THAT road.
PS I think quite a few of us owe Carmen an apology for possibly turning his event into a tragedy. I'm sure he was a little nervous about it which takes away his fun.
Note from Carmen: I told Dave no apologies needed. I'm not looking for people to fall on their swords. I just want to take a step back and make sure the next run is enjoyable and safe. As I said in my reply to April, I was hauling ass as well, especially Sunday when it was sunny and dry.
Carmen,
I have no idea what my old sign in is or was, so maybe you can post this for me.
I was the driver of the viper and am responding through a request to do so. Myself and Brian K attend track events and are pretty comfortable with our cars well over 100mph. I will admit that I was driving too fast and I know why. I forgot where I was, a public highway!
April - Relax, spins do happen to the best of us. I am pretty sure I know the corner where you spun. It wasn't your bald tires(also considered home made slicks). Bald tires provide a better contact patch and therefore better grip. It was driver error. Now don't bite my head off even pro drivers have to stand in front of a camera and admit they made an error. This was a tricky turn, "falling away, unloading suspension" type turn. There are two things you don't do on this type of turn; don't lift, and don't turn the wheels when the suspension unloads. You had to lift, why? This was not a track and there is no run-off. What's my point? Too fast for THAT corner on THAT road. Not pointing a finger, I took it too fast also, just trying to prevent it from happening to you again.
Hardtopguy - "viper almost bit the dust.." Not really. I say that to illustrate my point. I "rotated" the car. Yes it is a track term. Rotation can drop seconds off lap times. My quickest lap at Mid-Ohio had plenty of rotation in the corners. On Rt 26 it did scare me, not because the car rotated, but when I straightened it I was looking at a mailbox!! Again, forgot where I was. Not a track, no run-off. I was too fast for THAT corner on THAT road. Brian K was able to master a four wheel drift at Beaverun Raceway, and cut seconds off his lap times. Lap after lap he was "rotating" his S without any danger of fear. By the way, I couldn't keep up with him even though I have roughly 200 more horses.
I know most of us have a competitive nature, and when one car goes fast most of us will try and keep up. I apoligize to Carmen and anyone else that I may have tempted into driving too fast on THAT road.
PS I think quite a few of us owe Carmen an apology for possibly turning his event into a tragedy. I'm sure he was a little nervous about it which takes away his fun.
Note from Carmen: I told Dave no apologies needed. I'm not looking for people to fall on their swords. I just want to take a step back and make sure the next run is enjoyable and safe. As I said in my reply to April, I was hauling ass as well, especially Sunday when it was sunny and dry.
06-11-2003, 10:06 AM
#13
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btw the first rule we have here where I work about these types of discussions (we call them "raise the bar" sessions because you have to use cliches in corporate america) is everything related to the event is open for discussion. The second rule is that you never ever make a personal attack. And the third is that you are not allowed to be defensive.
This brings me to my last comment - It was too cold in Carmen's room on Saturday night.
This brings me to my last comment - It was too cold in Carmen's room on Saturday night.
06-11-2003, 10:18 AM
#14
I think part of the issue for some of us is that we know the road now and have become very confident. It reminded me of when I used to do SCCA Rally through the woods, and into the woods, at very high speeds. The speeds on this weekend were higher than the Cincinnati run and many of the corners were just as tight. Joe, do you agree? But the markings on the roads on the Cinci run had recommended speeds at almost every corner which I did not see on Rt. 26.
Granted, the corner pass that I did (guilty) was driven by adrenalin and not my brains. When I got to town, the adrenalin was still pumping and so was the other guys I ran with. We got out of our cars and realized that run was nuts. Also, the front of the car and my forehead to a beating. I popped a blood vessel in my eye from something. Next time I will be more normal since I know that I was running at 11/10ths.
Granted, the corner pass that I did (guilty) was driven by adrenalin and not my brains. When I got to town, the adrenalin was still pumping and so was the other guys I ran with. We got out of our cars and realized that run was nuts. Also, the front of the car and my forehead to a beating. I popped a blood vessel in my eye from something. Next time I will be more normal since I know that I was running at 11/10ths.
06-11-2003, 10:37 AM
#16
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"Lead us not into Temptation......."
For myself personally, Carmen, I need to mature more between now and then. The only person I was upset with Saturday night was myself.
Bringing the wife definitely will help slow me down....
For myself personally, Carmen, I need to mature more between now and then. The only person I was upset with Saturday night was myself.
Bringing the wife definitely will help slow me down....
06-11-2003, 11:19 AM
#19
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by david1
[B]I think part of the issue for some of us is that we know the road now and have become very confident. It reminded me of when I used to do SCCA Rally through the woods, and into the woods, at very high speeds. The speeds on this weekend were higher than the Cincinnati run and many of the corners were just as tight.
[B]I think part of the issue for some of us is that we know the road now and have become very confident. It reminded me of when I used to do SCCA Rally through the woods, and into the woods, at very high speeds. The speeds on this weekend were higher than the Cincinnati run and many of the corners were just as tight.
06-11-2003, 11:55 AM
#20
Former Moderator
This is a great debrief thread. I think everyone who is considering doing a run like this should be required to read this thread. There is a ton of good information. I was not on this run, however, I did drive Rt 26 the weekend before with another S2000. This road is a great road, however, if you are not careful it will bite you. Whenever I'm on a drive like this I constantly remind my self of the famous saying I learned off this board. "In SLOW out FAST" I would also say if you want to push your car on a public road to more than 70% of its capabilities then you need to take it to the track. There are just to many variables that you have no control over on a public road.