Honda to cut production at Ohio plants
12-15-2008, 06:53 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by nala,Dec 15 2008, 09:47 AM
I never said I disagree with you, just offering a different perspective. I agree with your theory on illegitimate demand and how it creates artificial market conditions that cannot be maintained - the house of cards has to fall eventually. And I would take your definition of "legitimate demand" one step further though to include "customers who NEED cars".
We're all here because we like cars. No doubt I've had more than my fair share, I get bored easy and upgrade (or sometimes downgrade, i.e. Fit) quite often. But I've never needed to do so, I wanted to do so. I imagine that's the case for most people, and when times get hard (or the prospect looms), we inherently start to more clearly differentiate between wants and needs. To me, that's why the market is constricting, dealers are closing, etc. That's all I'm saying...
We're all here because we like cars. No doubt I've had more than my fair share, I get bored easy and upgrade (or sometimes downgrade, i.e. Fit) quite often. But I've never needed to do so, I wanted to do so. I imagine that's the case for most people, and when times get hard (or the prospect looms), we inherently start to more clearly differentiate between wants and needs. To me, that's why the market is constricting, dealers are closing, etc. That's all I'm saying...
12-15-2008, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by nala,Dec 15 2008, 09:51 AM
This is true.
I have a family member who has filed bankruptcy 3 times in the past 15 or so years. They never learn from it, just wipe the slate clean and go back to charging the exact same thing that got them in trouble in the first place. Ask them why don't you change your lifestyle, he answers "because I'm entitled to do so - I refuse to live in a smaller house, wear nothing but new clothes, drive the newest SUV, etc. - what would people think, how would I be able to attract/retain clients?"
What's this person's profession, you may be wondering? It's laughable, scary and sad at the same time, but tells a lot about where we are and how we got here - he's a financial advisor!
I have a family member who has filed bankruptcy 3 times in the past 15 or so years. They never learn from it, just wipe the slate clean and go back to charging the exact same thing that got them in trouble in the first place. Ask them why don't you change your lifestyle, he answers "because I'm entitled to do so - I refuse to live in a smaller house, wear nothing but new clothes, drive the newest SUV, etc. - what would people think, how would I be able to attract/retain clients?"
What's this person's profession, you may be wondering? It's laughable, scary and sad at the same time, but tells a lot about where we are and how we got here - he's a financial advisor!
Perception may be "everything" but d@mn.
BTW, OP, sorry for hi-jacking (albeit on a related topic), but I figure if Honda pulls back, we're really in for some sh*t.
God bless and I hope there are no layoffs!
12-15-2008, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by nala,Dec 15 2008, 09:47 AM
....And I would take your definition of "legitimate demand" one step further though to include "customers who NEED cars".
.......I imagine that's the case for most people, and when times get hard (or the prospect looms), we inherently start to more clearly differentiate between wants and needs. To me, that's why the market is constricting, dealers are closing, etc. That's all I'm saying...
.......I imagine that's the case for most people, and when times get hard (or the prospect looms), we inherently start to more clearly differentiate between wants and needs. To me, that's why the market is constricting, dealers are closing, etc. That's all I'm saying...
UGH.
12-15-2008, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by nala,Dec 15 2008, 10:51 AM
What's this person's profession, you may be wondering? It's laughable, scary and sad at the same time, but tells a lot about where we are and how we got here - he's a financial advisor!
12-15-2008, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by nala,Dec 15 2008, 09:55 AM
Maybe not to you, but they mean something to me!
What I'm saying is I'm not surprised they're offering deals to qualified (or as we've been saying here buyers with "legitimate" demand) buyers because the cars are so specialized and are more expensive than say regular/base Imprezas or Lancers.
Inherently these "halo" cars also carry a considerably smaller margin (especially in times like now) unless over-inflated by speculation/trendy demand (like the Miata when i twas first released, or the S2K even
).For example, I once heard that once everything is accounted for that Honda (Acura) loses money on every (new) NSX sold (yes, even at "NSX prices"). I can't attribute the quote to anyone, but honestly I'm not surprised. It and the S2000 are Honda's "halo" cars.
12-15-2008, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Ubetit,Dec 15 2008, 08:01 AM
I read somewhere that financial advisors have the highest bankruptcy rate for white collar professions so it doesn't surprise me. I've sat down with a few over the years and I have to tell you i was not impressed.
12-15-2008, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by nfty,Dec 15 2008, 10:44 AM
Oh sooo that's why all these dealerships are closing down because everyone that wants a car can get a loan
(I'm not disagreeing with you outright, because that's likely why we're in the mess we're in, but yah how many people are truly "credit worthy" nowadays?)
Besides, how "privileged" can you be if you can't even spell the word? LOL! J/K!!!!
I agree about credit being a privilege, or rather a marketable asset. If you don't make money then you sure as hell can't pay borrowed money back! Goes for banks, businesses, and obviously individuals too.
(I'm not disagreeing with you outright, because that's likely why we're in the mess we're in, but yah how many people are truly "credit worthy" nowadays?)
Besides, how "privileged" can you be if you can't even spell the word? LOL! J/K!!!!
I agree about credit being a privilege, or rather a marketable asset. If you don't make money then you sure as hell can't pay borrowed money back! Goes for banks, businesses, and obviously individuals too.
Why are dealerships closing down? Because as many as 75% of their customers have lousy credit and walk in the door with no cash in hand, upside down $10,000 on their SUV (or car) and expect a miracle. Makes it hard to sell cars. Plus there are too many dealerships. Have been for years. The numbers change everyday, but the average Toyota dealer sells five times the number of cars as a GM dealer. Not because Toyota is better, but because there are too many GM dealers. Same for Ford and Chrysler.
If you don't make money, you can't pay it back? Yes, it is a vicious cycle that pushes many into bankruptcy. I don't have a solution and frankly anyone who says they do, is full of sh!t.
12-15-2008, 11:21 AM
#30
Originally Posted by Scott Evil,Dec 15 2008, 08:34 AM
I never claim to be smart...
