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They're Marching Against God - Your .02

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Old 07-24-2002, 08:05 PM
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"The thought that consistency is a sine qua non for central notions such as validity, truth, meaningfulness, rationality, is deeply ingrained into its (Western philosophy's) psyche. One thing that has come out of the modern investigations into dialetheism appears to be how superficial such a thought is. If consistency is, indeed, a necessary condition for any of these notions it would seem to be for reasons much deeper than anyone has yet succeeded in articulating. And if it is not, then the way is open for the exploration of all kinds of avenues and questions in philosophy and the sciences that have traditionally been closed off." Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
Old 07-24-2002, 08:53 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by chroot
[B]Ooops -- muscle memory makes my fingers type orthonormal automatically.
Old 07-24-2002, 08:56 PM
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Originally posted by Garyj
"The thought that consistency is a sine qua non for central notions such as validity, truth, meaningfulness, rationality, is deeply ingrained into its (Western philosophy's) psyche. One thing that has come out of the modern investigations into dialetheism appears to be how superficial such a thought is. If consistency is, indeed, a necessary condition for any of these notions it would seem to be for reasons much deeper than anyone has yet succeeded in articulating. And if it is not, then the way is open for the exploration of all kinds of avenues and questions in philosophy and the sciences that have traditionally been closed off." Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
Cool!

Maybe I'm not a heretic after all!

Old 07-25-2002, 04:02 AM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jay Li
[B]

So essentially, you believe that the people that ran for their own lives were selfish and therefore bad?
Old 07-25-2002, 07:28 AM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by JonBoy
[B]
As for not being able to afford doing good, speaking from a scriptural point of view that is complete baloney.
Old 07-25-2002, 07:53 AM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jay Li
[B]

I didn't quote all of your response, just the stuff I wanted to respond to...

Certainly, rich people can afford to give some to the poor.
Old 07-25-2002, 08:44 AM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by chroot
[B]magician,

None of those posts were a magnum opus in which I had gathered every thought I've ever had or ever will have, and laid them out exactly as necessary to answer every question that ever has been asked or ever will be asked.
Old 07-25-2002, 08:47 AM
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I'll answer a few of these.

As to your comment about not writing a magnum opus: You've contradicted yourself by saying that your faith can be disproved and that faith cannot be disproved. Please be mature enough to acknowledge the contradiction, or admit that you made a mistake and correct it, or be quiet.

As to finding mistakes I've made: Neither you nor anyone else here will find in my posts a direct contradiction such as I found in your posts.

As to your "backing off": without context, you're right, saying you believe something may not be backing off from saying it's a fact. In context, I asked you why consistency in Nature must be true, and your response was simply that you believe it.

As to maturity: I just covered that.

As to my question about accuracy: You have stated more than once that you don't want others here speaking for you, although you've spoken for others (for me, specifically). I prefaced my comment about the type of proof you'd accept by acknowledging that I oughtn't speak for you, and I was simply trying to make sure that you would agree with my assessment that you would only accept scientific proof. I can think of no more succinct way to invite your concurrence or your correction than to ask you if I were accurate.

Broadening this just a bit, many times your posts have been explicitly condescending and patronizing. Attack the argument, if you can, but don't attack the arguer. You are clearly well-read, and intelligent, and it's clear that you have given your position a lot of careful thought. To employ condescention should be beneath you. I've succombed myself, and was adult enough to apologize when I did. Please try to find it in yourself to apologize when you do.

Finally, I applaud your effort to complement people when thay make a good point, whether it supports your position or not. You've done it with me and with others in this discussion. Thank you for your honesty and for your complements.
Give me a break, dude -- are you my ****ing dad? Go back to your magic tricks.

- Warren
Old 07-25-2002, 09:14 AM
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Kill this thread before it spreads!

The point I made back when we were in single digit page numbers was that good and bad are the inventions of man as is god. You folks are yelling at one another, and insulting one another about things that don't exist w/o humankind. A hungry man hits another over the head to take his bread. He kills him in doing so. Is this bad? Of course not. It's the same as a crow ripping the fetus from an egg of another bird. There is no morality here folks. The nature of man to fight one another is part of the ooze from which you came. It is basic in you. It is the reason you exist. Society is an attempt at harmony rather than chaos. But it is NOT the norm. It is an invention. Good and bad are inventions. Right and wrong are inventions. They are the product of mankind's desire to have a little order and structure in their lives, but not the natural order of things. All knowing entities floating about spewing forth paradoxes for man to ponder is about as man made as anything can get. The idea that a god would exist as a father figure is obviously childlike and born of want and confusion by man. Morality, whilst a nice and comforting thing, is not a truth, or an integral part of man. It is part of a system of rules for social behavior. Let's please talk about things that are real. The ability of the human to actually know anything is a good topic. So far this thread hints that there is some capability of that, albeit clouded in myth and superstition and want and fear.

All now bow and worship the one real truth you don't want to know. Entropy.
Old 07-25-2002, 09:17 AM
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magician,

A) I already explained that the faith/belief issue was nothing more than sloppy word choice on my part. I was using the two terms interchangeably until I realized that it was getting me into trouble with literal folks like JonBoy -- at which point I decided to begin using "faith" strictly to describe a subset of beliefs that may not be disproved, and do not need evidence.

B) Again, I never spoke for you. Quote me or shut up about it.

C) As far as your "come here, son, sit on my lap and let me tell you how to act" bit -- you can shove it straight up your ass. Trust me, I haven't gotten to where I am today by listening to the criticisms of stupid people -- and I'm not about to start today. Your comments have been placed gently in the round file, where they belong.

- Warren


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