JonBoy

[QUOTE]Originally posted by chroot
[B]

Wow, that explains sooooo much -- thank you.

Garyj

We don't have all the answers yet, but it's certainly plausible that we will eventually have a coherent, complete model of creation that accounts for the existence of God.

JonBoy

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ltweintz
[B]

Sorry.....I removed my previous statement cause I didn't think I explained what I was trying to get across.

JonBoy

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Garyj
[B]

JonBoy,

I've got to give you credit.

ltweintz

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JonBoy
[B]Is "The Matrix" completely infeasible, then?

JonBoy

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ltweintz
[B]

Fine......then since there are no absolutes what-so-ever, then there might not be a god right?

chroot

The Matrix is entirely, completely, wonderfully feasible. That's why it was such a cool-ass movie.

There was a whole circus of philosophies in the past that involved demons, who fed us sensory input to make us believe the world around us existed. Then came the local realists, the people who sparked the scientific revolution by arguing that there IS an objective reality, and we CAN know all of it.

Who is right? Who knows. There is ipso facto no way to prove the demons (or the Matrix) don't exist.

What if the demons really are feeding us sensory input? What if the real world really IS different? We all live behind the veil of perception -- we cannot experience reality directly, only through senses. Perhaps the demons that feed your brain have led you to believe that God exists... erroneously.

Imagine that Satan came to Earth, impressed some local herdsman with some magical tricks, called himself the Creator of the Universe, and handed the herdsman a book. The herdsman does his best to spread the news, and teach everyone what he believes to be the Word Of God. Imagine you are born into this society and are taught from childhood that this book is Holy Scripture. How could you tell that this book is actually the work of an impostor?

Alternatively, suppose that instead of Satan, an ordinary human con artist decides to set themselves up as a prophet of God. This has happened many times in history, and there are "prophets" selling books today.

A third alternative: someone is suffering from untreated schizophrenia. They hear voices in their head, and they believe that they are hearing from God, or angels. In prescientific times, mental illness was not well understood; their sincerity may have convinced many people that they truly were hearing messages from invisible spirits.

The question, of whether a certain text, or ANY text delivered by human hands, should be considered "revelation", is ENTIRELY SEPARATE from belief or disbelief in God, whether you think of God as male or female, one or many, loving or cruel or indifferent.

"Revelation" is not the least bit necessary to religious belief. There is nothing to stop you from worshipping whatever God you wish. You can understand ethics by asking yourself what a loving Parent of All WOULD want us to do in a given situation. You don't HAVE to belong to any particular church, or believe any particular book. All you have to do is understand that you are free.

- Warren

JonBoy

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ltweintz
[B]

Exactly!

ltweintz

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JonBoy
[B]

Certainly!

chroot

While I applaud your play on my words, I boo your message. If we're to believe that God is perfect and all the rest, and that the Bible is perfect and all the rest, then we have to believe that the model that already is in place is the only model. Religion, idealistically, is static. It doesn't have models. It doesn't have hypotheses. It's supposed to be exactly as God said it should be... until, of course, some Pope or something decides to, say, decree that the beaver's tail is really a fish.

- Warren