Tonky

Jonboy.
You have not *seen* broken bones mended..... unless you're gifted with x-ray vision.
You have not *seen* cripples healed. You may well have seen people respond to stimulus by; for example, standing from wheelchairs. *Healed* is a somewhat more long term condition. All I'll say about the blind being given sight is that they themselves are the only ones, outside of examination by specialists in the field, who are are able to judge. You, the onlooker, certainly are not!

I don't discount the power of the human mind and body to overcome certain illnesses and conditions. Why do some people recover from terminal illness while others succumb? There are certainly many cases of unexplained recovery from terminal conditions on record that are not attributed in any way to intervention from faith healers.

Medical science acknowledges plenty of so far unexplained recoveries from terminal illness. It is medical science which will eventually hopefully begin to understand what the processes are within the body which bring about the necessary changes for recovery to occur.

I've seen the sort of mass hysteria gatherings to which you refer, and I find them an unedifying spectacle giving false hope to many and encouragement to the more dramatically inclined.


You posts are excellent. I don't doubt the sincerity of the beliefs you hold, and you are entitled to them. Just be a little more analytical of some of the things you write and take for granted, like some of the "billions" of things that happen to you every day that you cannot explain.

chroot

If free will exists, then the next state of a system does not depend entirely upon its history (even if that history is infinitely long). As a result, there is no way to predict the future, even if you know the entire history. The next state is indeterminate.

Of course, you can erect some God who knows all and sees all, who lives outside time, space, logic, and Truth. You can live with the myriad paradoxes and inconsistencies if you'd like.

- Warren

VisualEchos

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JonBoy
[B]

You can take my word for it - I've seen it and, while I haven't experienced it, people in my family and some of my friends have (not to mention my friends' friends, etc, etc).

VisualEchos

[QUOTE]Originally posted by chroot
[B]

If free will exists, then the next state of a system does not depend entirely upon its history (even if that history is infinitely long).

magician

[QUOTE]Originally posted by S2Kguy
[B]So, you're asking me to assume that something you've seen but not directly experienced is the work of some God?

JonBoy

[QUOTE]Originally posted by chroot
[B]

Don't ever speak for me again.

You actually have no idea how I read.

chroot

So why would these folks be afflicted in the first place? If God is all-knowing, all-seeing, and lives outside time, space, logic, and Truth, why would he need to heal people of their ailments? Why would they even have the ailments to begin with? If I were going to subscribe to some God, I'd make sure he's a little more omniscient and omnipotent than that. Otherwise, I just might ask for a refund.

- Warren

magician

Perhaps to be able to tell good from bad; humans seem to need a basis for comparison.

(Note: I said "perhaps" and I meant it; this is a possibility, a conjecture. Nothing more.)

chroot

Did I ever say any of this crap? Please don't get in the habit of making up crazy shit, then expecting me to continue challenging it ad infinitum. My patience will wear thin.

I certainly don't "accept" a theory without understanding every single concept of it. That would be stupid. Or synonymously, that would be faithful.

If you stay skeptical, you'll eventually learn the Truth. You'll never know the whole Truth (at least, it does not seem it will happen in my lifetime, anyway) -- but you'll be sure to avoid being seduced by the other rubbish, like hyperspace, wormholes, ESP, faith healing, God, etc.

Good science is science without process errors, or science done with proper rigor, formalism, and technique. Not all good science is correct -- but all correct science must but good.

- Warren

JonBoy

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cedric Tomkinson
[B]Jonboy.
You have not *seen* broken bones mended..... unless you're gifted with x-ray vision.