They're Marching Against God - Your .02
07-19-2002, 01:28 PM
#233
Hmm,
I've really been enjoying reading all of this.
Warren, the way I read magician's take on your last statement is that whereas you state that your faith can be disproven, you mean that the results of your faith can be disproven. These results being theories, axia (axioms?, oh hell postulates!), statements such as 1+1=2, etc.
However, the reality is that your "faith" is that whatever the problem/situation/hypothesis, there is indeed a way to logically think it through, and then test that thought in order to prove or disprove it.
Now, this last bit has nothing to do with all of the previous discussion. I read a couple of books recently that I think those who've made it to page 5 here might find interesting. They are "The Hiram Key" and "The Second Messiah" by Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas.
Clark
I've really been enjoying reading all of this.
Warren, the way I read magician's take on your last statement is that whereas you state that your faith can be disproven, you mean that the results of your faith can be disproven. These results being theories, axia (axioms?, oh hell postulates!), statements such as 1+1=2, etc.
However, the reality is that your "faith" is that whatever the problem/situation/hypothesis, there is indeed a way to logically think it through, and then test that thought in order to prove or disprove it.
Now, this last bit has nothing to do with all of the previous discussion. I read a couple of books recently that I think those who've made it to page 5 here might find interesting. They are "The Hiram Key" and "The Second Messiah" by Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas.
Clark
07-19-2002, 01:35 PM
#234
[QUOTE]Originally posted by chroot
[B]
How is my faith better than yours?
[B]
How is my faith better than yours?
07-19-2002, 01:41 PM
#235
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Originally posted by chroot
I think it's the one I meant to make.
I think it's the one I meant to make.
No treatise here, just a few sentences explaining how they're different.
07-19-2002, 01:41 PM
#236
[QUOTE]Originally posted by chroot
[B]I think it's the one I meant to make.
[B]I think it's the one I meant to make.
07-19-2002, 01:50 PM
#237
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In a visceral sense, I mean that the object of my faith (scientific understanding) may be disproved.
In a more humanistic and personal sense, I mean that my faith itself is tenuous -- in disproving my faith's object, you have disproved my faith itself.
Religious faith is different -- its object may not be disproved.
- Warren
In a more humanistic and personal sense, I mean that my faith itself is tenuous -- in disproving my faith's object, you have disproved my faith itself.
Religious faith is different -- its object may not be disproved.
- Warren
07-19-2002, 01:52 PM
#238
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I'm still waiting on real errors from the Bible.
In other cases, the "explanations" require such contortions of language and reasonability as to call themselves into question. Where you choose to draw your line in the sand, is, of course, a personal decision.
- Warren
07-19-2002, 02:03 PM
#239
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Originally posted by chroot
In a visceral sense, I mean that the object of my faith (scientific understanding) may be disproved.
In a visceral sense, I mean that the object of my faith (scientific understanding) may be disproved.
Originally posted by chroot
. . . in disproving my faith's object, you have disproved my faith itself.
. . . in disproving my faith's object, you have disproved my faith itself.
Originally posted by chroot
Religious faith is different -- its object may not be disproved.
Religious faith is different -- its object may not be disproved.
So with what are we left?
The object of your faith can (possibly) be disproven; the object of religious faith cannot.
You say that your faith itself can be disproven by disproving its object (we may disagree on that point)--whether it can be disproven any other way hasn't been discussed. Religious faith cannot be disproven by disproving its object--whether it can be disproven any other way hasn't been discussed.
It sounds like we're left with more questions than answers--at the very least, more territory yes unexplored--and the memory of a lively discourse.
Not bad for a Friday.
(And, of course, the occasional spelling/typographical error!)
07-19-2002, 02:06 PM
#240
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Originally posted by chroot
Where you choose to draw your line in the sand, is, of course, a personal decision.
Where you choose to draw your line in the sand, is, of course, a personal decision.
(Sorry, I get goofy on Friday afternoons!)