Rich, they don't get any respect from the racing community because they don't do anything you and I probably couldn't do, not because of they way they talk. NASCAR is not racing...it's drafting...big difference. Now, at Watkins Glen they race, if you can call it that, but I don't expect them to be Senna on that course, they only race 2 courses in the year where they have to turn more than 1 direction. Some of these guys could probably be great race-car drivers, but we'll probably never know.

I don't hate NASCAR because they don't do what I personally call racing, I hate NASCAR because it's popularity has taken over the only racing channel I have.

"Put em' in a WRC car and see if they can race."

Andrew

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by S2Kguy
Rich, they don't get any respect from the racing community because they don't do anything you and I probably couldn't do.
I wouldn't be so brazen as to speak for the entire racing community. There were 150,000 (maybe more) fans at Las Vegas recently and I'm sure every single one loves WRC and Boat Racing. Then again...how did they end up getting all those rednecks up to Vegas anyway? I didn't know Neveda had rednecks? Fans
are just as much as makeup of the "racing community" as you call it, then the drivers. Without them, you
have no race. If a Cosworth runs thru the woods without rally fans, does it make a noise?
NASCAR is not racing...it's drafting...big difference.
That's like saying Auto-X isn't racing either 'cause one is doing little more than circling dog shit in a K-Mart parking lot. There are myriad forms of the sport with each their only niche. Some NASCAR folks might think watching a Hyundai going up Mt. Washington to be about as exciting to view as a 2-hr compilation of midget porn but it hasn't stopped the crowds from lining the mountain to watch it. Others feel watching F1 is little more than a mechanical snake with one car leading the others in a ho-hum line of buzz-saws. Not me...but I also find that 185-mph drafting, as you call it, to be just as exciting as watching the WRC Ford Focus with Colin behind the wheel. There is plenty of room on the circuit for all of these incarnations of the sport. As a matter of fact, 2002 IROC standings show six of 12 drivers NASCAR affiliated, including the top gun Tony Stewart. Last year's champ? Bobby Labonte. As for Stewart, as any racing fan will recall, his 6th place finish at Indy last year was memorable if for no other reason than he finished 3rd at Charlotte only hours later.
Some of these guys could probably be great race-car drivers, but we'll probably never know.
Actually, I think I've done a fair job of pointing out that we do, indeed, know.
I don't hate NASCAR because they don't do what I personally call racing, I hate NASCAR because it's popularity has taken over the only racing channel I have.
Your anti-NASCAR sentiments seem to be originating from the anger you have against Speed Vision for adding more Dukes of Hazard to the daily line-up. You sound like just another disgruntled Speed Vision fan who thinks NASCAR is taking over the channel. Somehow, that hasn't prevented me from watching the Austrailian GP or recent WRC events. You and Sport Compact Car's Josh Jacquot need to take a chill pill with all this whining about NASCAR's extended Speed Channel coverage. If I miss a live showing of any F1 race on the schedule due to a marathon of NASCAR Classics, then I'll agree with you.
And finally...
"Put em' in a WRC car and see if they can race."
Well........ok. Check Robby Gordon's showing at the 14th Michelin Race of Champions. It was so impressive, Saab's Per Eklund remarked, "Gordon was fantastic. He beat Schwarz on the first lap--this is not bad for a Yankee. HE understands. I hope he's coming back." Gordon set the fastest rally lap time in the quarter finals by 1.5 seconds. Not bad for a good ole' boy.

 

Elitism at it's best...

I love all forms of racing, I even got a kick out of the lawn mower racing Speedvision was showing just a week or two before it changed to Speed Channel.... man I miss those good ole days when things were right with the world. I'll admit, I've been overwhelmed with the NASCAR coverage so far but I think that's mostly due to the fact that none of the other major forms has really gotten started this year (until last weekend). Give them a chance, if it's still this way in July even I'll be bitching... but give them a chance.

Hmm... only real racing is at Monaco??? I guess "real racing" means you get to know who is going to win the Driver's Championship and who is going to win the Manufacturer's Championship 8 months in advance? Don't get me wrong, I love F1 and watch it just about every weekend. I also admire the skill and balls the WRC drivers have, I feel the same about Superbikes as well. Neither are my cup of tea, and I don't have a favorite WRC navigator or anything, but I enjoy it. I also like that redneck form of rrrr... wait, it's not really racing... I forgot.

Open your eyes, pay attention to a Winston Cup race and maybe you can drop the "I'm so posh, I don't like NASCAR because it's so unrefined" attitude. It's real racing, no matter how long you study a few WRC tapes I'd bet my life's worth that none of us here could put up a respectable showing behind the wheel of a Winston Cup car. I get the feeling that some people on this board just don't like anything that is just brute power. If it's not dainty, doesn't spin at 10,000 rpm or higher, or isn't under boost, you just aren't going to like it. Whatever, no skin off my back. I just wish some people weren't so closed-minded.

Chris

 

Anyone who thinks running 600 miles at 190 MPH just inches away from 42 other cars isn't racing,.... well let's just say he don't know what a race is.

For there to be a "race" you actually need some competition. When Schumacher wins by 30 seconds or so over the the second place finisher well that is a demonstration of speed, not a race.

Anyone who thinks turning left all the time is not racing has never seen a CART race at Michigan or the Milwakee Mile. There is more passing in one race on a CART oval than there is in 10 years of Formula 1.

Anyone who thinks they can do what a Winston Cup driver can do is deluding themselves. There are a million guys fighting it out on little local bull rings every Saturday night with the same pipe dream and 99.9% of them never make the big time.

Seems like a lot of people here are just talking out of their ass. Jeff Gordon or the Late Dale Earnhardt could have driven just about anything because they were natural race car drivers. Anyone who watched Gordon as a Sprint Car Driver knows ho much talent he has. Yet a great sprint driver like Steve Kinser could not cut it as a Winston Cup driver.

BTW Sam Posey speaks well but he is the biggest assh*le in all of motorsports broadcasting.

 

I'm not sure who they should be trying to gain respect and prestige from. The hundreds of thousands of fans that pack the tracks every weekend, and millions tuning in every sunday, seem to indicate that NASCAR has reached out to a pretty substantial fanbase. Who cares if the Europeans (and elitist Americans) don't like it?

And as others have mentioned or hinted at, NASCAR's current young guns are hardly rednecks. Gordon and Kevin Harvick are California boys, Matt Kenseth is from Wisconsin, Tony Stewart is from Indiana, Bobby and Terry Labonte are from Texas. Yeah, there are a lot of good 'ol boys floating around, but as NASCAR has become more commercial, the more eloquent spokesmen have gotten the major sponsors, while some of the "rednecks" have had a harder time. Ultimately though, it's the driver and his team's ability to win races that matters, same as with every other form of racing.

As for the racing itself, it has its ups and downs. NASCAR's officials sometimes make CART's clowns look like geniuses. The parity has been taken to such an extreme that pitstops (strategy and execution) and dumb luck (getting a bad set of tires) have as much or more of an impact on the winner than the driver or car setup. As televised, the races seem to last an eternity (although in person they are much quicker), and the insane amount of television coverage has turned the series into as much of a soap opera as it is a racing series. On the bright side, the races are usually "good" in that there is a "race" at the end (the last 10% of a NASCAR race can be as good as it gets, the other 90% is usually boring as hell!), and on any given day just about any of the 43 starters has a legitimate shot at winning. Of course there are the better teams and the lesser teams, but unlike certain forms of "real racing" (F1) the series champion isn't a foregone conclusion. I could easily point to the 1st races of the F1 series (MS win comes almost ridiculously easy) and IRL series (Hornish lapped the entire field at one point, only 3 cars finished on the lead lap) to argue that NASCAR is doing a lot of things right.

I'm not saying you should stop following F1, WRC, ALMS, etc - just accept that NASCAR is #1 in the US. Rather than whining, try introducing your NASCAR loving friends to other forms of racing, you might be surprised at the results!

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bieg
[B]Anyone who thinks running 600 miles at 190 MPH just inches away from 42 other cars isn't racing,.... well let's just say he don't know what a race is.

For there to be a "race" you actually need some competition.

 

Seeing how I watch every form of racing every week since it was first broadcast on TV I know a bit about it. I remember idiot Sam Posey commenting on national TV on how special a win it was when Bobby Rahal won the Indy 500 because Jim Trueman (Car Owner who was dying of Cancer) probably wouldn't be around for next years race. Brilliant. He was a so, so driver and a idiot as well as a wuss of a broadcaster.

Well Dave Marcis could do it because he was a very good driver when he was younger. He has not been competative for years and stayed well past his prime.

By the same token I can ask if F-1 is so hard how come a bunch of the backmarkers can "Buy" their rides? They had to enact the 107% rule to help eliminate the rolling roadblocks they caused.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ElTianti
[B]Again, how hard can it be if guys in thier 50's can do (Dave Marcus)?

 

Your comments fall on deaf ears Russ, you waste bandwidth for nothing.


You stick up for average people with average skills, no NASCAR driver deserves to be included with the likes of WRC drivers, get used to it.



Andrew

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bieg
[B]Anyone who thinks running 600 miles at 190 MPH just inches away from 42 other cars isn't racing,.... well let's just say he don't know what a race is.

For there to be a "race" you actually need some competition.