Just got back from Star Wars III
05-20-2005, 02:50 PM
#11
I was interested in going today but I wasn't sure about the waiting line.
Kevin
05-21-2005, 04:24 AM
#13
It seems some die hard Star Wars fans are feeling depressed as there is nothing to look forward to now. What do you all say to that?
05-21-2005, 08:46 AM
#15
Community Organizer
[QUOTE=Honda 367,May 21 2005, 08:24 AM] It seems some die hard Star Wars fans are feeling depressed as there is nothing to look forward to now.
05-21-2005, 01:54 PM
#17
[Not exactly spoilers here...but seriously, if you're wanting to yet see the flick for the first time 
then don't read this thread 
]
I had to make a "leap of faith" regarding General Grevious, similar to your suggestion Alex. Although I had not played any game, read any books, etc. regarding Lucas' [actual] story fully fleshed out per se, I just saw Grevious as an "experiment that must have gone wrong." The efforted merging of droid and organic organs. I could have imagined such an experiment having had the effect of the organism becoming self-aware with intentions of mass-control. So I rolled with that and didn't sweat it much
. Oh, and as for the coughing...he probably was a 2-pack a day'er 
(you've still given those up, right Alex? )
As for the clone army origins, think about this... Palpatine made references that he was himself a pupil of another of The Dark Side...although I can't remember him suggesting a name -- Darth Plagueis the Wise? in III. A strong member that had learned to harness the power to bring back the dead. And that same master, Palpatine explained to Annakin, he himself destroyed. Seems to me that Palpatine could easily have been Siphideus. We know in II that Obi Wan, travelling to the Clone planet, learns that Siphideus got this effort going "for the Republic." Yet, in Obi Wan's stunned face during his conversations with one of the Clone planet folks, it was apparent that the Jedi Order (and Council for certain) was NOT aware that this clone army was being created. All that in place, subsequently, you have Palpatine's striking down his Master, moving himself more and more prominently into Senate positions, etc. Things falling into place... And later in II, Duku is talking with a shackled Obi Wan and spells out the storyline there...[at that present time] that the Senate is corrupt, 50+ members currently under the control of a Darth Sidious (Palpatine!). And that Palpatine still had plans for the clone army (that his Master had begun) as he still needed to destroy the Jedi Order to control the Empire that he was putting into place.
Annakin...so quickly going to The Dark Side? So quickly losing his "moral compass?" Seems unlikely? Watch the 6pm news any night of the week. Things build...people snap sometimes. We've watched Anny come up now from a slave child. Watched the council even at Anny's early age be weary of him...of the prophecy. Watched Palpatine begin saying "sweet nothings" into Annakin's young impressionable ear informing him that Annakin will be stronger than even his own Master, Obi Wan. SW II blew chunks sometimes because this same Annakin "whined" so often...wanting to be an adult...wanting to be respected...wanting to be powerful...and ultimately being told to "wait your turn." We watched this same angered teen-aged Annakin viciously slaughter an entire village when his mother was brutally and repeatedly beaten & raped. Immediately after returning his dead mother to her husband (by purchase), Annakin spills his guts to Padmae saying both, "One day I will be able to keep people from dying"...and he notes that he slaughtered everyone -- man, woman...and child in the Tuskan Raider camp. Annakin showed us *there* that he can kill the defenseless -- a trait of The Dark Side...or at the very least, not a trait of those that follow the good side of The Force. Add that the Jedi Order bent one off in Annakin's rear..."Sure, join the Council...but still you're no Jedi Master in our book." Worse..."We're just using you to play double-agent on Palpatine." Are we getting completely pissed off yet? Imagine such a promotion even in your own job/career. How frustrating! Now...Palpatine...saying all the things [disgruntled] Annakin needs to hear -- "The Jedi want to be in power...but they don't want you to share that power. The Dark Side is not 'bad' its just a side of The Force that the council is unwilling to engage. I can help you. With me as your teacher, I can bring you the power you want...you deserve." And lets not forget, Annakin sees a future where his [most] beloved will die. Palpatine promises that the two of them will rediscover this power lost with the death of Palpatine's master. Palpatine poison's Annakin's mind into a view that the Jedi Order are "out to get Annakin" and Palpatine. Makes it an "Its us or them" challenge. Annakin, I believe, was crippled by his anger (lets remember time and again that its pointed out that Anger is the fastest way to The Dark Side), we know that The Dark Side is "easier, more seductive"...and these things, coupled with Annakin's previous taste for revenge have him swinging all too easily. I think in those seconds before the younglings were massacred...Annakin was torn, twisted...but ultimately he saw his wife's impending death and the promise of supreme power as a means towards saving her. That overrode all else. He turned to The Dark Side in those moments. And it was done.
Now...having touched on your questions Alex, I'll pass along something I loved about this movie. Vader made Star Wars...plain and simple. And I could not wait to get Vader back into my eyes on the big screen again. That breathing, that twisted wreck desiring ultimate power... What a great character. So when I saw Obi Wan fighting Annakin on the volcanic planet...it didn't take a second to say to myself, "Sweet!
This is where Annakin's body is gonna get 
d up!" Saying that...I *never* imagined he'd get sooooooo d up!!!!! 
NOW I could appreciate the physical wreck that required mechanized assistance to breath under that sleek ebony exterior that so imprinted on my 12 year old brain in 1977.
Something in that same fight that I appreciated was Obi Wan not finishing Annakin off right then and there. My wife was like, "WTF? Kill him and be done with it!" Now, it wasn't just that Annakin was "like a brother." Screw that...Obi Wan was hurt over all this, but he would have known that Annakin is now a part of The Dark Side. But my thoughts run towards the good side of the Jedi Order and that they believe you cannot kill someone that is defenseless. Dude
...Annakin, down to one arm and no other appendages...burned beyond belief...umm, that's pretty ing defenseless if you ask me. Besides......the story has to move to A New Hope...so Annakin ain't gettin killed either for "good reasoning" or "friendly hope."
Another thing that was cool was that we already knew Luke first finds Yoda on a remote jungle planet. Always I'd have asked, "Why would the strongest Jedi be out in seclusion?" III answered that sweetly with Yoda's indicating he must do just that. Another "Yoda"-thing that I think I noticed in III...Yoda's eyes are green day in and day out. At one point during III, the camera is zoomed in close on Yoda's face (eyes closed)... Yoda opens his eyes...and they're "Sith Gold"
. I cannot remember what the moment entailed...but I believe it had to do with Yoda sensing all the Jedi being exterminated. In those moments...I believe we're to see that even Yoda, full of anger/rage at the Jedi's demise...touching the edges of The Dark Side himself. All the more reason he recognized he must leave...must exile himself.
Seriously, there are just so many good "tie ins" with III. The twins being split, where they go, how Palpatine/Sidious makes ties with the Trade Federation to gain control of the Senate / overturn other strengths to put himself in an advantageous way. And bottomline...having just watched III yesterday afternoon...I gotta see this movie once or twice more. Very cool...lots of things do get buttoned up with this movie. Better acting over I & II (by the way, seems to me that what makes I & II so "stiff" is that there are [nearly] no contractions spoken by pretty much all the humans. Yet ironically, C3PO speaks with contractions nearly always. WOW...interesting & I wonder if Lucas was deliberate in this for any particular reason 
.
Anyway... very good movie. Well worth the price. Adds sweetly to a tremendously entertaining story that has, indeed, spanned three decades.
- Dave
then don't read this thread ]I had to make a "leap of faith" regarding General Grevious, similar to your suggestion Alex. Although I had not played any game, read any books, etc. regarding Lucas' [actual] story fully fleshed out per se, I just saw Grevious as an "experiment that must have gone wrong." The efforted merging of droid and organic organs. I could have imagined such an experiment having had the effect of the organism becoming self-aware with intentions of mass-control. So I rolled with that and didn't sweat it much
. Oh, and as for the coughing...he probably was a 2-pack a day'er (you've still given those up, right Alex? )As for the clone army origins, think about this... Palpatine made references that he was himself a pupil of another of The Dark Side...although I can't remember him suggesting a name -- Darth Plagueis the Wise? in III. A strong member that had learned to harness the power to bring back the dead. And that same master, Palpatine explained to Annakin, he himself destroyed. Seems to me that Palpatine could easily have been Siphideus. We know in II that Obi Wan, travelling to the Clone planet, learns that Siphideus got this effort going "for the Republic." Yet, in Obi Wan's stunned face during his conversations with one of the Clone planet folks, it was apparent that the Jedi Order (and Council for certain) was NOT aware that this clone army was being created. All that in place, subsequently, you have Palpatine's striking down his Master, moving himself more and more prominently into Senate positions, etc. Things falling into place... And later in II, Duku is talking with a shackled Obi Wan and spells out the storyline there...[at that present time] that the Senate is corrupt, 50+ members currently under the control of a Darth Sidious (Palpatine!). And that Palpatine still had plans for the clone army (that his Master had begun) as he still needed to destroy the Jedi Order to control the Empire that he was putting into place.
Annakin...so quickly going to The Dark Side? So quickly losing his "moral compass?" Seems unlikely? Watch the 6pm news any night of the week. Things build...people snap sometimes. We've watched Anny come up now from a slave child. Watched the council even at Anny's early age be weary of him...of the prophecy. Watched Palpatine begin saying "sweet nothings" into Annakin's young impressionable ear informing him that Annakin will be stronger than even his own Master, Obi Wan. SW II blew chunks sometimes because this same Annakin "whined" so often...wanting to be an adult...wanting to be respected...wanting to be powerful...and ultimately being told to "wait your turn." We watched this same angered teen-aged Annakin viciously slaughter an entire village when his mother was brutally and repeatedly beaten & raped. Immediately after returning his dead mother to her husband (by purchase), Annakin spills his guts to Padmae saying both, "One day I will be able to keep people from dying"...and he notes that he slaughtered everyone -- man, woman...and child in the Tuskan Raider camp. Annakin showed us *there* that he can kill the defenseless -- a trait of The Dark Side...or at the very least, not a trait of those that follow the good side of The Force. Add that the Jedi Order bent one off in Annakin's rear..."Sure, join the Council...but still you're no Jedi Master in our book." Worse..."We're just using you to play double-agent on Palpatine." Are we getting completely pissed off yet? Imagine such a promotion even in your own job/career. How frustrating! Now...Palpatine...saying all the things [disgruntled] Annakin needs to hear -- "The Jedi want to be in power...but they don't want you to share that power. The Dark Side is not 'bad' its just a side of The Force that the council is unwilling to engage. I can help you. With me as your teacher, I can bring you the power you want...you deserve." And lets not forget, Annakin sees a future where his [most] beloved will die. Palpatine promises that the two of them will rediscover this power lost with the death of Palpatine's master. Palpatine poison's Annakin's mind into a view that the Jedi Order are "out to get Annakin" and Palpatine. Makes it an "Its us or them" challenge. Annakin, I believe, was crippled by his anger (lets remember time and again that its pointed out that Anger is the fastest way to The Dark Side), we know that The Dark Side is "easier, more seductive"...and these things, coupled with Annakin's previous taste for revenge have him swinging all too easily. I think in those seconds before the younglings were massacred...Annakin was torn, twisted...but ultimately he saw his wife's impending death and the promise of supreme power as a means towards saving her. That overrode all else. He turned to The Dark Side in those moments. And it was done.
Now...having touched on your questions Alex, I'll pass along something I loved about this movie. Vader made Star Wars...plain and simple. And I could not wait to get Vader back into my eyes on the big screen again. That breathing, that twisted wreck desiring ultimate power... What a great character. So when I saw Obi Wan fighting Annakin on the volcanic planet...it didn't take a second to say to myself, "Sweet!
This is where Annakin's body is gonna get d up!" Saying that...I *never* imagined he'd get sooooooo d up!!!!! NOW I could appreciate the physical wreck that required mechanized assistance to breath under that sleek ebony exterior that so imprinted on my 12 year old brain in 1977. Something in that same fight that I appreciated was Obi Wan not finishing Annakin off right then and there. My wife was like, "WTF? Kill him and be done with it!" Now, it wasn't just that Annakin was "like a brother." Screw that...Obi Wan was hurt over all this, but he would have known that Annakin is now a part of The Dark Side. But my thoughts run towards the good side of the Jedi Order and that they believe you cannot kill someone that is defenseless. Dude
...Annakin, down to one arm and no other appendages...burned beyond belief...umm, that's pretty ing defenseless if you ask me. Besides......the story has to move to A New Hope...so Annakin ain't gettin killed either for "good reasoning" or "friendly hope."Another thing that was cool was that we already knew Luke first finds Yoda on a remote jungle planet. Always I'd have asked, "Why would the strongest Jedi be out in seclusion?" III answered that sweetly with Yoda's indicating he must do just that. Another "Yoda"-thing that I think I noticed in III...Yoda's eyes are green day in and day out. At one point during III, the camera is zoomed in close on Yoda's face (eyes closed)... Yoda opens his eyes...and they're "Sith Gold"
. I cannot remember what the moment entailed...but I believe it had to do with Yoda sensing all the Jedi being exterminated. In those moments...I believe we're to see that even Yoda, full of anger/rage at the Jedi's demise...touching the edges of The Dark Side himself. All the more reason he recognized he must leave...must exile himself.Seriously, there are just so many good "tie ins" with III. The twins being split, where they go, how Palpatine/Sidious makes ties with the Trade Federation to gain control of the Senate / overturn other strengths to put himself in an advantageous way. And bottomline...having just watched III yesterday afternoon...I gotta see this movie once or twice more
. Very cool...lots of things do get buttoned up with this movie. Better acting over I & II (by the way, seems to me that what makes I & II so "stiff" is that there are [nearly] no contractions spoken by pretty much all the humans. Yet ironically, C3PO speaks with contractions nearly always. WOW...interesting & I wonder if Lucas was deliberate in this for any particular reason .Anyway... very good movie. Well worth the price. Adds sweetly to a tremendously entertaining story that has, indeed, spanned three decades.
- Dave
05-21-2005, 03:11 PM
#18
General Grievous' history to the Star Wars saga...
^ ^ ^ And this area in general offers tremendous historical accounts/tie-ins for those that want to get a better feel. I just found this site to better appreciate Grievous...and I'm betting I'll enjoy it to better thresh out the entire storyline and its characters interwoven stories.
^ ^ ^ And this area in general offers tremendous historical accounts/tie-ins for those that want to get a better feel. I just found this site to better appreciate Grievous...and I'm betting I'll enjoy it to better thresh out the entire storyline and its characters interwoven stories.
05-21-2005, 04:56 PM
#19
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As for the clone army origins, think about this... Palpatine made references that he was himself a pupil of another of The Dark Side...although I can't remember him suggesting a name -- Darth Plagueis the Wise? in III. A strong member that had learned to harness the power to bring back the dead. And that same master, Palpatine explained to Annakin, he himself destroyed. Seems to me that Palpatine could easily have been Siphideus. We know in II that Obi Wan, travelling to the Clone planet, learns that Siphideus got this effort going "for the Republic." Yet, in Obi Wan's stunned face during his conversations with one of the Clone planet folks, it was apparent that the Jedi Order (and Council for certain) was NOT aware that this clone army was being created. All that in place, subsequently, you have Palpatine's striking down his Master, moving himself more and more prominently into Senate positions, etc. Things falling into place... And later in II, Duku is talking with a shackled Obi Wan and spells out the storyline there...[at that present time] that the Senate is corrupt, 50+ members currently under the control of a Darth Sidious (Palpatine!). And that Palpatine still had plans for the clone army (that his Master had begun) as he still needed to destroy the Jedi Order to control the Empire that he was putting into place.
As far as Siphideus is concerned. The impression I got was that someone had pretended to be Siphideus since he had died some time ago. The cloners didn't know any better and they just went along with whatever they were told. Whether it was Count Dooku or Darth Sidiuous that did it, the movie doesn't suggest either way. But thats the impression I got.
As far as Anakin making a quick switch from "good" to evil ... Throughout all of Episode II and Episode III, Anakin displays a conflicted mind that switches from doing what he's been taught is good and right to what he feels he should be doing. The fact that he goes against the Jedi teachings and secretly marries Padme shows he is unable to listen to the Jedi teachings 100%. Anakin's character is always conflicted until Palpatine finally turns him, and even then in ROTJ you see his character is still conflicted and eventually chooses to help Luke.
Anyways ... I thought the movie was really good. Not quite as good as the original trilogy but a lot closer to those episodes than the first two. Not sure if this third installment can help to bring the first 2 episodes up a notch or two, but I'm really glad Episode III wasn't as bad as the first 2.