CDC AutoX Saturday Oct 6 in Frederick, MD
10-10-2007, 06:41 AM
#81
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No offense but being on the top of the CDC Index means basically nothing. It certainly not your faults for being confused about the issue, the CDC Index is confusing and not really valid.
To give you an idea, we have two people both with stock S2000. Driver A beats driver B 's raw time by around two seconds; but the CDC Index gives Driver B an Index score that is about 2 seconds better than driver A. Make any sense?[QUOTE]
Thanks, that really makes me feel better
I still don
To give you an idea, we have two people both with stock S2000. Driver A beats driver B 's raw time by around two seconds; but the CDC Index gives Driver B an Index score that is about 2 seconds better than driver A. Make any sense?[QUOTE]
Thanks, that really makes me feel better
I still don
10-10-2007, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by LiQUiD iCE,Oct 10 2007, 06:29 AM
CDC isn't supposed to be competitive though, its one of the reasons I like CDC. (At least thats the way I feel about it).
The index system is setup to show you how well you did compared to how you normally do. So if you're much faster than you normally are, you'll get a higher indexed time at that autox. Its not necessarily good for showing how well you did against other drivers, its good to show how much you're improving, so for example ... At the last Manassas autox, I had a really good time, and I was 2nd in index time. That says to me that I did really well compared to how I normally do. I'm competing against myself. Your index average also shows you how well you're doing against other people, my average was always below the average time, but more recently its gone up to around a 1.0, which means I'm getting better and I'm an average driver.
As far as evening the playing field for vehicles, its good for when you're competing, like SCCA does. I'm not sure if I really would want CDC to turn into a more competitive group. For me, I just enjoy spending the day out with friends and getting to drive my car at the limits while improving my driving. But I'm not looking to be an SCCA autox champion or anything.
The index system is setup to show you how well you did compared to how you normally do. So if you're much faster than you normally are, you'll get a higher indexed time at that autox. Its not necessarily good for showing how well you did against other drivers, its good to show how much you're improving, so for example ... At the last Manassas autox, I had a really good time, and I was 2nd in index time. That says to me that I did really well compared to how I normally do. I'm competing against myself. Your index average also shows you how well you're doing against other people, my average was always below the average time, but more recently its gone up to around a 1.0, which means I'm getting better and I'm an average driver.
As far as evening the playing field for vehicles, its good for when you're competing, like SCCA does. I'm not sure if I really would want CDC to turn into a more competitive group. For me, I just enjoy spending the day out with friends and getting to drive my car at the limits while improving my driving. But I'm not looking to be an SCCA autox champion or anything.
Of course, on some level we are all just trying to do our best, to improve and push ourselves to our limit BUT we are all trying to beat other folks times too, right?
The CDC Index does nothing other than show how much variance you have in runs. once you get a little better and more consistent, the CDC index will be useless. In fact, it will penalize you for consistency which is what you should be working on.
The SCCA PAX system is not any more competitive tha our current system. In fact we have folks sandbagging (intentionally doing poorly) in order to lower their index so they can win for the season. Think about this, people are intentionally driving slower to win the overall season. That can never happen with SCCA, you do the best you can and that is that. Furthermore, you can directly compare your times with every other driver (regardless of vehicle type).
10-10-2007, 07:06 AM
#83
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Originally Posted by LiQUiD iCE,Oct 10 2007, 08:29 AM
CDC isn't supposed to be competitive though, its one of the reasons I like CDC. (At least thats the way I feel about it).
I'm not sure if I really would want CDC to turn into a more competitive group. For me, I just enjoy spending the day out with friends and getting to drive my car at the limits while improving my driving.
I'm not sure if I really would want CDC to turn into a more competitive group. For me, I just enjoy spending the day out with friends and getting to drive my car at the limits while improving my driving.
10-10-2007, 07:09 AM
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I guess some people do throw away their times at some events to get a better yearly ranking. I also hear you about the consistency issue. I've noticed that the difference between my worst and best times at each event have gotten much smaller during the last few events compared to my first few ones. I used to be able to drop 6+ seconds, but now I'm right around 2 seconds at most. I still need to figure out how to get that "magical" run where I drop one second from my fastest time.
10-10-2007, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by 4W MCYL,Oct 10 2007, 07:06 AM
10-10-2007, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Hobbs5313,Oct 10 2007, 11:20 AM
It's funny, but if the CDC events weren't timed, I don't think it'll be as much fun. Timing is what makes the CDC event competitive to a certain point in my opinion. I think most folks have some level of competitiveness in them whether they want to admit it or not.
We are all competitive, I'm competitive. But, when we don't compare apples to apples(in regards to car, experience etc), I try not to obsess over my times. As long as I improve from my previous runs, I'm happy. 
10-10-2007, 07:47 AM
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The thing I like best about CDC is how laid back it is!! I can approach almost all of you fast guys and ask for tips and pointers to improve my time. It makes for an overall pleasant experience!! I've heard other series where the fast/top guys are so obsessed about winning that there is an air of seriousness and arrogance.
10-10-2007, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by 4W MCYL,Oct 10 2007, 09:47 AM
The thing I like best about CDC is how laid back it is!! I can approach almost all of you fast guys and ask for tips and pointers to improve my time. It makes for an overall pleasant experience!! I've heard other series where the fast/top guys are so obsessed about winning that there is an air of seriousness and arrogance.
10-10-2007, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by TubeDriver,Oct 10 2007, 09:55 AM
AutoX is fundamentally a competitive event. If we just did it to have fun, we could save a lot of time and frustration and simply not record times. How fun would that be?
Of course, on some level we are all just trying to do our best, to improve and push ourselves to our limit BUT we are all trying to beat other folks times too, right?
The CDC Index does nothing other than show how much variance you have in runs. once you get a little better and more consistent, the CDC index will be useless. In fact, it will penalize you for consistency which is what you should be working on.
The SCCA PAX system is not any more competitive tha our current system. In fact we have folks sandbagging (intentionally doing poorly) in order to lower their index so they can win for the season. Think about this, people are intentionally driving slower to win the overall season. That can never happen with SCCA, you do the best you can and that is that. Furthermore, you can directly compare your times with every other driver (regardless of vehicle type).
Of course, on some level we are all just trying to do our best, to improve and push ourselves to our limit BUT we are all trying to beat other folks times too, right?
The CDC Index does nothing other than show how much variance you have in runs. once you get a little better and more consistent, the CDC index will be useless. In fact, it will penalize you for consistency which is what you should be working on.
The SCCA PAX system is not any more competitive tha our current system. In fact we have folks sandbagging (intentionally doing poorly) in order to lower their index so they can win for the season. Think about this, people are intentionally driving slower to win the overall season. That can never happen with SCCA, you do the best you can and that is that. Furthermore, you can directly compare your times with every other driver (regardless of vehicle type).
A little friendly competition amongst friends, sure. But I'm not skilled enough to be setting FTD ever.I started autoxing simply to try to learn the limits of the car and figure out what to do in a RWD car when you lose control.
I honestly don't care what system we use, I don't pay enough attention to winning for the year because I'm never anywhere close to the top.
But if we switch to a system that makes people or attracts people that care more about competing against each other and less about having fun, and learning how to drive ... then count me out. I'd rather drive slow and have a good time then drive fast and worry about whether or not I'm going to get called out because I accidentally put my car in the wrong class.
Don't forget too that CDC attracts a lot of people new to autoxing. Its easy to attract them because they don't need to know anything more than the year, make, and model of their car. They don't need to figure out what class they're in, they don't need to read through some SCCA rulebook. They just show up, learn a few simple rules and have fun.
Thats just my 2 cents. I'm not setting FTD like you are Pete
I'm honestly just out there to have fun ... If you did away with times, I'd still probably come out to do it. After all, I goto HPDEs and they're not timed.
10-10-2007, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by LiQUiD iCE,Oct 10 2007, 12:21 PM
I suck, I'm not trying to compete against anyone but myself A little friendly competition amongst friends, sure. But I'm not skilled enough to be setting FTD ever.
I started autoxing simply to try to learn the limits of the car and figure out what to do in a RWD car when you lose control.
I honestly don't care what system we use, I don't pay enough attention to winning for the year because I'm never anywhere close to the top.
But if we switch to a system that makes people or attracts people that care more about competing against each other and less about having fun, and learning how to drive ... then count me out. I'd rather drive slow and have a good time then drive fast and worry about whether or not I'm going to get called out because I accidentally put my car in the wrong class.
Don't forget too that CDC attracts a lot of people new to autoxing. Its easy to attract them because they don't need to know anything more than the year, make, and model of their car. They don't need to figure out what class they're in, they don't need to read through some SCCA rulebook. They just show up, learn a few simple rules and have fun.
Thats just my 2 cents. I'm not setting FTD like you are Pete I'm honestly just out there to have fun ... If you did away with times, I'd still probably come out to do it. After all, I goto HPDEs and they're not timed.
A little friendly competition amongst friends, sure. But I'm not skilled enough to be setting FTD ever.I started autoxing simply to try to learn the limits of the car and figure out what to do in a RWD car when you lose control.
I honestly don't care what system we use, I don't pay enough attention to winning for the year because I'm never anywhere close to the top.
But if we switch to a system that makes people or attracts people that care more about competing against each other and less about having fun, and learning how to drive ... then count me out. I'd rather drive slow and have a good time then drive fast and worry about whether or not I'm going to get called out because I accidentally put my car in the wrong class.
Don't forget too that CDC attracts a lot of people new to autoxing. Its easy to attract them because they don't need to know anything more than the year, make, and model of their car. They don't need to figure out what class they're in, they don't need to read through some SCCA rulebook. They just show up, learn a few simple rules and have fun.
Thats just my 2 cents. I'm not setting FTD like you are Pete
I'm honestly just out there to have fun ... If you did away with times, I'd still probably come out to do it. After all, I goto HPDEs and they're not timed.Your point about FTD is dead right, in the current CDC system the only prize to shoot for is FTD. The same 4-6 cars run in the top at every event, the same 2-3 people will win the overall championship every year.
The SCCA PAX will truly allow all people to compete on equal footing. With a SCCA PAX, you will see a whole new group of "Bigshots" running in Miatas and other slow cars. It is not a bad thing, it means everyone truly has a shot of winning. If you don't really care about Index and just want to have fun, well then nothing about the index really matters just continue to have fun.
I am starting to get the sense that many people opposed to the "SCCA" sytle PAX have never actually attended a SCCA event. There is a reason that the SCCA is the largest autoX organization around and it's not because the put on miserable, competitive events. They are the largest because the put on the most fair, competitive and fun events around.
Anyone here enjoy the Cumberland AutoX? That uses SCCA PAX, how about Mercedes AutoX? That also uses the complete SCCA PAX. What about AutoXers Inc events or the Philly winter series events or BMW events etc. they all use the SCCA PAX.
CDC is a great, fun club DESPITE our lousy index system. With a better Index system we can be a great, fun club with fair and balanced competition.
I personally prefer no Index at all, just use raw times then continue using the current CDC system.