Cale
11-14-2008, 09:01 PM
#323
were some really good stories told today. And the pastor wasn't pretty good as well.
11-14-2008, 09:02 PM
#324
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I would like to pass on my condolences to Cale's family and S2k club members from my 40,000+ member Toyota MR2 Owners Club.
I met Cale briefly in the paddock back in October at the Cadillac V-Day II Track day at Summit Point.
He did whoop up on me while on the track, passing my N/A MR2 with authority and schooling me in the corners. The kid was awesome on the track.
Here are some CTSV V-Day II event images taken that day of Cale at Summit Point.
http://picasaweb.google.com/ctsvphoto/GreenI11#
Bill Strong
Owner
Racing Strong Motorsports
The Toyota MR2 Owners Club
Arrington, Virginia
I met Cale briefly in the paddock back in October at the Cadillac V-Day II Track day at Summit Point.
He did whoop up on me while on the track, passing my N/A MR2 with authority and schooling me in the corners. The kid was awesome on the track.
Here are some CTSV V-Day II event images taken that day of Cale at Summit Point.
http://picasaweb.google.com/ctsvphoto/GreenI11#
Bill Strong
Owner
Racing Strong Motorsports
The Toyota MR2 Owners Club
Arrington, Virginia
11-15-2008, 08:01 AM
#325
Former Moderator
Thread Starter
More information has come in about Cale's accident and I have changed my opinion of what happened to Cale's car to cause the the crash.
Assumptions:
The car was traveling approximately 128mph at the beginning of the braking zone for Turn 1. My data logger shows my speed at 125 and Cale was faster than me.
Cale was applying the brakes. The SCCA corner worker that worked Turn 1 said she saw the car did not decelerate and she noticed the brake lights were lit as he went by. This rules out driver incapacitation as the cause.
A stuck throttle was not the cause. The post crash car examination showed the throttle butterfly was closed with the throttle cable working normally. Also, simply pushing the clutch in would allow the brakes to stop the car.
A suspension failure did not cause the accident. All four skidmarks on the pavement were uniform. A broken suspension would normally put more weight on the opposite diagonal tires and the skidmarks would show heavier, darker marks.
My in-car video shows a small "flash" from the right side of Cale's car that looked like tire smoke, but all 4 of Cale's tires were still inflated--I actually checked the air pressure. After studying the video very closely I see that Cale actually moved from the normal braking point on the far left side of the track to about 1/3 of the way across the track to the right. It looks like he began to turn in to the right before turning very rapidly to the left and beginning his slide. With the late afternoon sun angle the "flash" from the right side of the car could have been the sun glinting off the right side window as he began the turn-in to the right. Also the Turn 1 corner worker did not notice any "smoke" from his car as he slid by. I no longer believe the "flash" on the video is smoke from the tires or brake dust and debris.
The car's brake fluid level was normal and all of the brake pads had plenty of material left. The car's right side brake rotors were both cracked which most likely was caused by the impact. The rear rotor was completely broken from the hub, but too much of the rotor was found near the impact site to support a rotor "disintegration". We did a sweep along the braking zone and didn't find any brake parts but BSR has been running training on the circuit since the accident. The loss of a rotor can allow the brake caliper piston to fully extend which would allow the brake pedal to soften or even go to the floor, but I found out that there is actually a piece of rotor still sandwiched between the brake pads in the right rear caliper. This would have prevented the caliper piston from hyper extending so the braking at the three other wheels would have been unaffected if the rotor had indeed disintegrated.
Scot Burner, an S2000 H1 racer, crashed at VIR in July due to a probable rear rotor failure.
Last year on the Summit Point Shenandoah Circuit I had a brake failure in my S2000 which was caused by running the left front brake pads down to the backing plate, which caused them to overheat and melt. The caliper piston pushed into the brake pad backing material which together with the excess heat caused the left front brake piston seal to fail (the brake fluid leaking out of the caliper actually caught on fire). Brake pressure for the left front and right rear dropped to zero.
Photo of my brake pads after the brake failure last year:
The S2000 has a dual diagonal brake system, meaning if one circuit fails the opposite diagonal wheels will still have brakes. When my brake failure happened it felt like total brake loss to me with the pedal going to the floor, but I did have enough braking to slow from 80 down to 35mph to make the pit entrance. The video of my brake failure can be seen here: Rob's Brake Failure It does not appear Cale had even this much braking available.
The skid marks at the track were easy to follow from about 50 feet inside the edge of the track to the wall. The car was sliding with about 20-50 degrees of left yaw from on the track abeam the access road all the way to the wall. I could not follow the skid marks any farther up the track due to a newly laid patch of black asphalt near the beginning of the turn-in point. Where the skid marks come out of this black asphalt the car was already in a four wheel slide of about 20 degrees left. The skid marks are very similar between the four wheels and there's no evidence of any ABS--the skid marks are uniform and appear to be from the slide, not brake lock or ABS cycling.
The corner worker confirmed that the right rear corner of the car struck the end of the tire barrier with the rest of the car hitting the bare concrete wall. The car's right side hit the wall pretty much flat against the wall while still in the slide. I estimate the impact vector relative to the occupant at about 60-70 degrees right.
With the corner worker confirming that the brake pedal was pressed (brake lights on), the lack of deceleration, the speed at impact, and the skid mark evidence, I now believe the brakes failed for a still undetermined reason. Cale began the turn to the right and then turned the car sharply to the left, perhaps to make the access road and its gap in the wall. Because of the excess speed he slid, put three tires in the gravel trap (the left front stayed on the access road) and overshot the access road. The car hit the wall on the far side of the access road. The corner worker said the car came completely off the ground after impact and bounced away from the wall. That is consistant with what I saw when I drove by the accident site--I could see the right side of Cale's car as it was away from the wall.
All the safety equipment was intact. The seat, harness, and cockpit were not compromised and both airbags were deployed. After seeing the impact marks on the wall,and realizing the severe high speed side impact he took, I don't know if a head and neck restraint would have saved Cale's life.
Even so I am investing in a head and neck restraint device. I am also going to be more cautious with my brake rotors and pads. I've always run my rotors until I see small cracks and push my pads until the very end. I had always assumed the rear rotors were bulletproof since they are solid and the rear brakes don't take as much abuse as the fronts, but that doesn't appear to be true.
Rob Robinette
Assumptions:
The car was traveling approximately 128mph at the beginning of the braking zone for Turn 1. My data logger shows my speed at 125 and Cale was faster than me.
Cale was applying the brakes. The SCCA corner worker that worked Turn 1 said she saw the car did not decelerate and she noticed the brake lights were lit as he went by. This rules out driver incapacitation as the cause.
A stuck throttle was not the cause. The post crash car examination showed the throttle butterfly was closed with the throttle cable working normally. Also, simply pushing the clutch in would allow the brakes to stop the car.
A suspension failure did not cause the accident. All four skidmarks on the pavement were uniform. A broken suspension would normally put more weight on the opposite diagonal tires and the skidmarks would show heavier, darker marks.
My in-car video shows a small "flash" from the right side of Cale's car that looked like tire smoke, but all 4 of Cale's tires were still inflated--I actually checked the air pressure. After studying the video very closely I see that Cale actually moved from the normal braking point on the far left side of the track to about 1/3 of the way across the track to the right. It looks like he began to turn in to the right before turning very rapidly to the left and beginning his slide. With the late afternoon sun angle the "flash" from the right side of the car could have been the sun glinting off the right side window as he began the turn-in to the right. Also the Turn 1 corner worker did not notice any "smoke" from his car as he slid by. I no longer believe the "flash" on the video is smoke from the tires or brake dust and debris.
The car's brake fluid level was normal and all of the brake pads had plenty of material left. The car's right side brake rotors were both cracked which most likely was caused by the impact. The rear rotor was completely broken from the hub, but too much of the rotor was found near the impact site to support a rotor "disintegration". We did a sweep along the braking zone and didn't find any brake parts but BSR has been running training on the circuit since the accident. The loss of a rotor can allow the brake caliper piston to fully extend which would allow the brake pedal to soften or even go to the floor, but I found out that there is actually a piece of rotor still sandwiched between the brake pads in the right rear caliper. This would have prevented the caliper piston from hyper extending so the braking at the three other wheels would have been unaffected if the rotor had indeed disintegrated.
Scot Burner, an S2000 H1 racer, crashed at VIR in July due to a probable rear rotor failure.
Last year on the Summit Point Shenandoah Circuit I had a brake failure in my S2000 which was caused by running the left front brake pads down to the backing plate, which caused them to overheat and melt. The caliper piston pushed into the brake pad backing material which together with the excess heat caused the left front brake piston seal to fail (the brake fluid leaking out of the caliper actually caught on fire). Brake pressure for the left front and right rear dropped to zero.
Photo of my brake pads after the brake failure last year:
The S2000 has a dual diagonal brake system, meaning if one circuit fails the opposite diagonal wheels will still have brakes. When my brake failure happened it felt like total brake loss to me with the pedal going to the floor, but I did have enough braking to slow from 80 down to 35mph to make the pit entrance. The video of my brake failure can be seen here: Rob's Brake Failure It does not appear Cale had even this much braking available.
The skid marks at the track were easy to follow from about 50 feet inside the edge of the track to the wall. The car was sliding with about 20-50 degrees of left yaw from on the track abeam the access road all the way to the wall. I could not follow the skid marks any farther up the track due to a newly laid patch of black asphalt near the beginning of the turn-in point. Where the skid marks come out of this black asphalt the car was already in a four wheel slide of about 20 degrees left. The skid marks are very similar between the four wheels and there's no evidence of any ABS--the skid marks are uniform and appear to be from the slide, not brake lock or ABS cycling.
The corner worker confirmed that the right rear corner of the car struck the end of the tire barrier with the rest of the car hitting the bare concrete wall. The car's right side hit the wall pretty much flat against the wall while still in the slide. I estimate the impact vector relative to the occupant at about 60-70 degrees right.
With the corner worker confirming that the brake pedal was pressed (brake lights on), the lack of deceleration, the speed at impact, and the skid mark evidence, I now believe the brakes failed for a still undetermined reason. Cale began the turn to the right and then turned the car sharply to the left, perhaps to make the access road and its gap in the wall. Because of the excess speed he slid, put three tires in the gravel trap (the left front stayed on the access road) and overshot the access road. The car hit the wall on the far side of the access road. The corner worker said the car came completely off the ground after impact and bounced away from the wall. That is consistant with what I saw when I drove by the accident site--I could see the right side of Cale's car as it was away from the wall.
All the safety equipment was intact. The seat, harness, and cockpit were not compromised and both airbags were deployed. After seeing the impact marks on the wall,and realizing the severe high speed side impact he took, I don't know if a head and neck restraint would have saved Cale's life.
Even so I am investing in a head and neck restraint device. I am also going to be more cautious with my brake rotors and pads. I've always run my rotors until I see small cracks and push my pads until the very end. I had always assumed the rear rotors were bulletproof since they are solid and the rear brakes don't take as much abuse as the fronts, but that doesn't appear to be true.
Rob Robinette
11-15-2008, 08:15 AM
#326
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Originally Posted by warman,Nov 14 2008, 07:55 PM
Nice seeing you guys, and meeting some of you.
I wasn't sure who was who for most of the time. I think everyone assumes everyone knows each other, so no one introduces them.
It was a great send off for a great person. The stories people told at the funeral home were absolutely inspiring. It really makes me look at my life to see what I could be doing differently.
Cale lived life to the fullest, and never at the expense of others. If I could do half of what he did in 28 years in my entire life, I would consider myself lucky.
I wasn't sure who was who for most of the time. I think everyone assumes everyone knows each other, so no one introduces them.
It was a great send off for a great person. The stories people told at the funeral home were absolutely inspiring. It really makes me look at my life to see what I could be doing differently.
Cale lived life to the fullest, and never at the expense of others. If I could do half of what he did in 28 years in my entire life, I would consider myself lucky.
looking at all his pictures in the funeral home he has definitely lived a full life and at a young age.
11-15-2008, 08:31 AM
#328
Originally Posted by robrob,Nov 15 2008, 01:01 PM
Assumptions:
The car was traveling approximately 128mph at the beginning of the braking zone for Turn 1. My data logger shows my speed at 125 and Cale was faster than me.
The car's right side brake rotors were both cracked which most likely was caused by the impact.
The corner worker confirmed that the right rear corner of the car struck the end of the tire barrier with the rest of the car hitting the bare concrete wall. The car's right side hit the wall pretty much flat against the wall while still in the slide. I estimate the impact vector relative to the occupant at about 60-70 degrees right.
With the corner worker confirming that the brake pedal was pressed (brake lights on), the lack of deceleration, the speed at impact, and the skid mark evidence, I now believe the brakes failed for a still undetermined reason. Cale began the turn to the right and then turned the car sharply to the left, perhaps to make the access road and its gap in the wall. Because of the excess speed he slid, put three tires in the gravel trap (the left front stayed on the access road) and overshot the access road. The car hit the wall on the far side of the access road. The corner worker said the car came completely off the ground after impact and bounced away from the wall. That is consistant with what I saw when I drove by the accident site--I could see the right side of Cale's car as it was away from the wall.
All the safety equipment was intact. The seat, harness, and cockpit were not compromised and both airbags were deployed. After seeing the impact marks on the wall,and realizing the severe high speed side impact he took, I don't know if a head and neck restraint would have saved Cale's life.
The car was traveling approximately 128mph at the beginning of the braking zone for Turn 1. My data logger shows my speed at 125 and Cale was faster than me.
The car's right side brake rotors were both cracked which most likely was caused by the impact.
The corner worker confirmed that the right rear corner of the car struck the end of the tire barrier with the rest of the car hitting the bare concrete wall. The car's right side hit the wall pretty much flat against the wall while still in the slide. I estimate the impact vector relative to the occupant at about 60-70 degrees right.
With the corner worker confirming that the brake pedal was pressed (brake lights on), the lack of deceleration, the speed at impact, and the skid mark evidence, I now believe the brakes failed for a still undetermined reason. Cale began the turn to the right and then turned the car sharply to the left, perhaps to make the access road and its gap in the wall. Because of the excess speed he slid, put three tires in the gravel trap (the left front stayed on the access road) and overshot the access road. The car hit the wall on the far side of the access road. The corner worker said the car came completely off the ground after impact and bounced away from the wall. That is consistant with what I saw when I drove by the accident site--I could see the right side of Cale's car as it was away from the wall.
All the safety equipment was intact. The seat, harness, and cockpit were not compromised and both airbags were deployed. After seeing the impact marks on the wall,and realizing the severe high speed side impact he took, I don't know if a head and neck restraint would have saved Cale's life.
Taking you assumptions into consideration, I agree with your conclusion. What happen to Cale was a disastrous tragedy. He probably hit the wall at more than 110 mph. At that speed, the impact could not have lasted more that .25 seconds. I could be wrong, but that results in a deceleration force of about 200g's.
11-15-2008, 08:37 AM
#329
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Thanks for the update Rob, I heard you explained the same thing to Cale's dad. I think it was a big help to him, like what he said it's good to know more on what had happened to put some closure as to what may have caused the terrible accident.
11-15-2008, 08:38 AM
#330
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After reading some of the notes Rob posted up, it is safe to say that a HANS would have not done much in this particular case considering it offers no finite side to side protection.
One thing that I forgot to ask, did any of the tires have any sort of flat spots? This would be a stronger indication of massive brake lockup. Rob chk ur pm as well
One thing that I forgot to ask, did any of the tires have any sort of flat spots? This would be a stronger indication of massive brake lockup. Rob chk ur pm as well