2011 Track Junkie Thread
07-12-2011, 07:59 PM
#1771
Skip: Yes! Well worded! That is basically one thing I have wondered...is a setup with 17x9 +40 better than 17x9 +63. It would be nice to have the $ to test various widths and offsets.
Lou: Well maybe it's not that big of deal but it's not like I asked if 18x9.5 +22 can fit on stock Fenders. I guess the whole ratings system doesn't matter that much but I prefer to keep a favorable reputation on here.
Lou: Well maybe it's not that big of deal but it's not like I asked if 18x9.5 +22 can fit on stock Fenders. I guess the whole ratings system doesn't matter that much but I prefer to keep a favorable reputation on here.
07-13-2011, 03:42 AM
#1772
Registered User
I can't concretely say. My opinion is not based on fact, but more on my beliefs. I believe there is more stress put on suspension components such as control arms, bushings, etc. when you start moving things outward. I believe this wear-n-tear could be measurable over a given amount of time. Additionally, the geometry is altered.
07-13-2011, 04:00 AM
#1773
I'm with Skip on this one despite the fact that I've had wheels on the more aggressive side of things. You likely will increase wear on several moving parts. Probably not significantly but more so than if you ran the proper offset.
I also think that it's going to take the best of the best driver to go out and find a noticeable performance difference in a 17x9 +40 to a 17x9 +63. If you look out at the west coast track crowd it seems there are just as many fast guys running higher offsets as lower offsets. I think a lot of it comes down to whether or not you want to do a lot of work with the fenders. I think the wheels around 9 +45 to +50 are the best mix of slightly wider track but nothing that is going to require a lot of fender work. And the best wheel I can think of that falls in that range is the Weds tc105n in 17x9 +49 They are just over 15lbs a piece. Have plenty of BBK clearance if you wanted. Aren't as expensive as volks. And they look great if that matters to you.
I also think that it's going to take the best of the best driver to go out and find a noticeable performance difference in a 17x9 +40 to a 17x9 +63. If you look out at the west coast track crowd it seems there are just as many fast guys running higher offsets as lower offsets. I think a lot of it comes down to whether or not you want to do a lot of work with the fenders. I think the wheels around 9 +45 to +50 are the best mix of slightly wider track but nothing that is going to require a lot of fender work. And the best wheel I can think of that falls in that range is the Weds tc105n in 17x9 +49 They are just over 15lbs a piece. Have plenty of BBK clearance if you wanted. Aren't as expensive as volks. And they look great if that matters to you.
07-13-2011, 04:50 AM
#1774
Registered User
07-13-2011, 05:02 AM
#1775
Registered User
There is always a point of diminshing return. With camber, you sacrifice braking potential for higher cornering potential. On a track that is smooth and has a majority of high-speed sweepers, a wider track would seem logical in helping potential lap times. On a bumpy and what some would consider a more technical track, i.e. many turns at lower speeds the wider tracked car might actually be a detriment. considering the S2000's length and lack of horsepower in stock weight trim, I can hypothesize a slightly wider track being more beneficial than the negatives associated with, and I loathe this adjective because it's completely false, "aggressive" offsets.
Something to also consider. Wheels are a HUGE aerodynamic drag on the car. Pushing them out even farther makes them that much more of a drag. This is a concern on our car on HP tracks such as VIR. Laugh at me all you want. I believe it to be significant. If there were some way to have used moon discs on my car and not complete melt the calipers, i would have done it.
Something to also consider. Wheels are a HUGE aerodynamic drag on the car. Pushing them out even farther makes them that much more of a drag. This is a concern on our car on HP tracks such as VIR. Laugh at me all you want. I believe it to be significant. If there were some way to have used moon discs on my car and not complete melt the calipers, i would have done it.
07-13-2011, 05:11 AM
#1776
Registered User
with regard to whether or not a particular wheel will rub or not is not a concrete "yes" or "no" for a couple of reasons. One, how hard are you loading the car? You say at full compression. are you talking about loading the car gradually on track or jumping the car where the load is instant? Two, how stiff do you plan to run your shocks/springs? If stiff and pushing the car, can your tires handle it- how much sidewall flex? Etc.
And after all these posts(and the -1 rep LOL), I will now offer my opinion: NO. You will rub like effin crazy if you drive the car- really drive the car. I've run +45 17x9 RPF1's or whatever they were with a wide 245 tire. I was never slammed and had 650f/550r springs on dbl adj revalved Koni's. It rubbed sitting in the paddock. That's with -3.5f/-3.0r camber, rolled fenders, and using those wheels only in the rain(not able to load the car as much). That is my experience. Others have run +45 without incident.
And after all these posts(and the -1 rep LOL), I will now offer my opinion: NO. You will rub like effin crazy if you drive the car- really drive the car. I've run +45 17x9 RPF1's or whatever they were with a wide 245 tire. I was never slammed and had 650f/550r springs on dbl adj revalved Koni's. It rubbed sitting in the paddock. That's with -3.5f/-3.0r camber, rolled fenders, and using those wheels only in the rain(not able to load the car as much). That is my experience. Others have run +45 without incident.
07-13-2011, 06:09 AM
#1777
I can't concretely say. My opinion is not based on fact, but more on my beliefs. I believe there is more stress put on suspension components such as control arms, bushings, etc. when you start moving things outward. I believe this wear-n-tear could be measurable over a given amount of time. Additionally, the geometry is altered.
I'm with Skip on this one despite the fact that I've had wheels on the more aggressive side of things. You likely will increase wear on several moving parts. Probably not significantly but more so than if you ran the proper offset.
I also think that it's going to take the best of the best driver to go out and find a noticeable performance difference in a 17x9 +40 to a 17x9 +63. If you look out at the west coast track crowd it seems there are just as many fast guys running higher offsets as lower offsets. I think a lot of it comes down to whether or not you want to do a lot of work with the fenders. I think the wheels around 9 +45 to +50 are the best mix of slightly wider track but nothing that is going to require a lot of fender work. And the best wheel I can think of that falls in that range is the Weds tc105n in 17x9 +49 They are just over 15lbs a piece. Have plenty of BBK clearance if you wanted. Aren't as expensive as volks. And they look great if that matters to you.
I also think that it's going to take the best of the best driver to go out and find a noticeable performance difference in a 17x9 +40 to a 17x9 +63. If you look out at the west coast track crowd it seems there are just as many fast guys running higher offsets as lower offsets. I think a lot of it comes down to whether or not you want to do a lot of work with the fenders. I think the wheels around 9 +45 to +50 are the best mix of slightly wider track but nothing that is going to require a lot of fender work. And the best wheel I can think of that falls in that range is the Weds tc105n in 17x9 +49 They are just over 15lbs a piece. Have plenty of BBK clearance if you wanted. Aren't as expensive as volks. And they look great if that matters to you.
Originally Posted by clarkster009' timestamp='1310529566' post='20773505
Lou: Well maybe it's not that big of deal but it's not like I asked if 18x9.5 +22 can fit on stock Fenders. I guess the whole ratings system doesn't matter that much but I prefer to keep a favorable reputation on here.
There is always a point of diminshing return. With camber, you sacrifice braking potential for higher cornering potential. On a track that is smooth and has a majority of high-speed sweepers, a wider track would seem logical in helping potential lap times. On a bumpy and what some would consider a more technical track, i.e. many turns at lower speeds the wider tracked car might actually be a detriment. considering the S2000's length and lack of horsepower in stock weight trim, I can hypothesize a slightly wider track being more beneficial than the negatives associated with, and I loathe this adjective because it's completely false, "aggressive" offsets.
Something to also consider. Wheels are a HUGE aerodynamic drag on the car. Pushing them out even farther makes them that much more of a drag. This is a concern on our car on HP tracks such as VIR. Laugh at me all you want. I believe it to be significant. If there were some way to have used moon discs on my car and not complete melt the calipers, i would have done it.
Something to also consider. Wheels are a HUGE aerodynamic drag on the car. Pushing them out even farther makes them that much more of a drag. This is a concern on our car on HP tracks such as VIR. Laugh at me all you want. I believe it to be significant. If there were some way to have used moon discs on my car and not complete melt the calipers, i would have done it.
07-13-2011, 06:13 AM
#1778
The 9 +63s only report very slight rubbing up front at full lock. I'd be willing to bet the extra 3mm of clearance you get running the pf01r in 9 +60 removes any of that rubbing completely. It sounds like a really good choice to me.
07-13-2011, 06:15 AM
#1779
with regard to whether or not a particular wheel will rub or not is not a concrete "yes" or "no" for a couple of reasons. One, how hard are you loading the car? You say at full compression. are you talking about loading the car gradually on track or jumping the car where the load is instant? Two, how stiff do you plan to run your shocks/springs? If stiff and pushing the car, can your tires handle it- how much sidewall flex? Etc.
And after all these posts(and the -1 rep LOL), I will now offer my opinion: NO. You will rub like effin crazy if you drive the car- really drive the car. I've run +45 17x9 RPF1's or whatever they were with a wide 245 tire. I was never slammed and had 650f/550r springs on dbl adj revalved Koni's. It rubbed sitting in the paddock. That's with -3.5f/-3.0r camber, rolled fenders, and using those wheels only in the rain(not able to load the car as much). That is my experience. Others have run +45 without incident.
And after all these posts(and the -1 rep LOL), I will now offer my opinion: NO. You will rub like effin crazy if you drive the car- really drive the car. I've run +45 17x9 RPF1's or whatever they were with a wide 245 tire. I was never slammed and had 650f/550r springs on dbl adj revalved Koni's. It rubbed sitting in the paddock. That's with -3.5f/-3.0r camber, rolled fenders, and using those wheels only in the rain(not able to load the car as much). That is my experience. Others have run +45 without incident.
07-13-2011, 06:29 AM
#1780
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Originally Posted by FF2Skip' timestamp='1310562679' post='20774282
with regard to whether or not a particular wheel will rub or not is not a concrete "yes" or "no" for a couple of reasons. One, how hard are you loading the car? You say at full compression. are you talking about loading the car gradually on track or jumping the car where the load is instant? Two, how stiff do you plan to run your shocks/springs? If stiff and pushing the car, can your tires handle it- how much sidewall flex? Etc.
And after all these posts(and the -1 rep LOL), I will now offer my opinion: NO. You will rub like effin crazy if you drive the car- really drive the car. I've run +45 17x9 RPF1's or whatever they were with a wide 245 tire. I was never slammed and had 650f/550r springs on dbl adj revalved Koni's. It rubbed sitting in the paddock. That's with -3.5f/-3.0r camber, rolled fenders, and using those wheels only in the rain(not able to load the car as much). That is my experience. Others have run +45 without incident.
And after all these posts(and the -1 rep LOL), I will now offer my opinion: NO. You will rub like effin crazy if you drive the car- really drive the car. I've run +45 17x9 RPF1's or whatever they were with a wide 245 tire. I was never slammed and had 650f/550r springs on dbl adj revalved Koni's. It rubbed sitting in the paddock. That's with -3.5f/-3.0r camber, rolled fenders, and using those wheels only in the rain(not able to load the car as much). That is my experience. Others have run +45 without incident.
Dude, you are thinking too much. Virtually every single serious track guy here is running 17x9 et63. I get NO inner rub with that setup running 255/40s., somepeople get minor rub at full lock.
17x9 et40 is a hellastupid flush fitment. It won't fit without some major work (and you would probably need to run narrow tires). Anyone who says that will fit is a street driver. I guarantee that if I took their S2000 with 17x9 et 40 wheel through hogpen at VIR, we would be walking back there after the session to look for the remains of their fenders.