ECG1000

Hi all.
Is there a buyer's guide on here somewhere? I've searched but can't find one.

I've done FF to the death and think it's time to move onto something rear wheel drive.
When I say done FF to the death I mean all of my cars except one (Golf R32) have been FF. I have driven plenty of rear wheel drive cars on the track though.

Very tempted by the GT86 but am worried I'll get bored of the lack on power.
Would love an E46 M3 but am worried about the cost of keeping it on the road. BMW parts are not cheap! Plus they all tend to crack their sub-frames.
Tempted for a 350z but heard they eat clutched every 40,000 miles! Is this the case with 370z's as well?

This leaves me with the S2000. Sort of seems like the right car for me.
I generally like to buy newer cars so have been looking at 2008's and 2009's. I read somewhere that the later cars are unreliable though? I have also heard the later cars tend to be setup better in terms of being more progressive on the limit.

Can someone clear this up for me?
What is the better year of car to go for? Thanks guys!

Spindash

Welcome to the forum!

Here is a buyer's guide that has some great info:

https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/775...-a-used-s2000/

Also, here is a difference by year guide:

https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/755...r-differences/

All S2000's have great reliability - that is one thing you won't have to worry about from year to year. You'll probably be happy with any year, as long as the car is in good shape, having been well-maintained. I'd go for lower mileage if your budget allows. The main difference is the AP1 (2000-2003) and AP2 (2004-2009) revisions. Engine changes, suspension changes, exterior/interior changes. Every few years had some smaller changes, but the main ones were between 03 and 04. The guide outlines them in detail and hopefully can help you out. Definitely good stuff to know before purchasing.

My advice is find a well taken care of S2000 with low miles and have fun!

Gotpepsi

GT86 is a great car, even with 200hp. Their handling is amazing, and it doesn't have a crazy overseer like AP1 s2000s. I test drove one the other day, the car was more comfortable, quieter, and roomier. The FRS will probably be sitting in my garage one day, of course the s2000 being the daily. I don't know anything about the E46 M3, but I doubt that 350z and 370z eat clutches every 40,000 miles. That statement seems very unlikely. I test drove the 3 350z before buying the s2000. IMO they feel very numb and heavy, plus the gearbox is horrible compared to a lot of other cars.

I recommend you go test drive an s2000, all years are very reliable.

ECG1000

Thanks for the replies guys, much appreciated.

My main concern was the later models having the 2.2 engine. From what I can gather that only applies to the US market.
Here in the UK we just got the chassis changes but kept the same engine (more or less) all the way through? Please correct me if I'm wrong....

I like the idea of the GT86 being easy to skid a low speeds. It's just the gruff engine that puts me off.
I'm not sure the clutch problem applies to the 370z but it definitely does to the manual 350z's. Maybe a problem with the UK models if they are any different. A lot of owners have reported clutch changes at 40k, even 30k!

I've read loads of stories about the S2000 being snappy on the limit. Is it actually that bad or do you have to be driving like a ham-fisted idiot for it to bite?
I've been in talks with a Honda specialist over here who say a decent geo. set-up can vastly improve things. Does anyone have experience with that?

Sorry for all the nooby questions. I like to get as much knowledge of a thing before I commit to it.

Gotpepsi

I cannot answer all of your questions, especially that you are in the UK and I am unfamiliar with anything across seas. I think you would like the GT86 if you test drove one. The engine output is not as bad, as you are saying. The fun factor compensates for the 200hp, plus you can have a roof rack for bikes and everything. Makes it more practical. The s2000 is a different animal, so I suggest you test drive both.
Not all s2000's are snappy on the limit. When you are reading stories about snap over steer it is usually pertaining to the first generation s2000's, MY00-MY03. Its because the suspension is a lot stiffer than 04+ models. Your Honda specialist is right, you can just change suspensions and the car will be more "refined". And also, VSA was introduced in later models (I'm not sure exactly when it was introduced). The key word in your question is "on the limit". Under normal driving you are not going to experience a crazy over steer, unless you have bald summer tires and hitting a patch of snow on a curve. I over steered once when I tried power sliding in the snow. Than again, I was driving like a ham-fisted idiot.

ECG1000

Thank you so much for the replies guys. Cleared a few things up.

The most sensible choice in terms of cost of running and things (not) breaking would be the GT86. They've got a 5 year warranty, aren't very thirsty and have cheap tyres to burn!

I think out of the S2000, 370z and M3 the S2000 wins in terms of reliability and cost to run.
I've had an EP3 Type R and a B18'd EM1 in the past so love VTEC but I do quite like the idea of having torquey 6 cylinder.

Guess I 've just got a lot of test driving to do. Poor me....

Spindash

Yes, you are correct. The 2.2 (F22C) is a 2004 and later addition in the US models only. There are a few other differences as well between US S2000's and Europe's, but most changes are the same and the UK section of the forum could help you with specifics on those. Test driving is a good way to find out which fits you best. My S2000 has been great - zero problems in the 2.5 years I've had it.

Gotpepsi

Keep in mind that the s2000 is very reliable. There are members here in the 200,000+ mile club and a picture of one's odometer in the 300,000 range. Over my ownership I only did the required schedule maintenance. The s2000 has a pretty low cost of ownership. Yes, the GT86 is under warranty, but that car also has quirks like the "crickets" some people call it. If you are now debating between the GT86 and the S2000, do a search on google. There is a thread on www.ft86club.com, over 50 pages, on this dispute. The f20 is in the one and only s2000.

Manga_Spawn

Here in the states a BRZ or GT-86 is about $28,000 when all is said and done. For that money you could have a pretty mint Ap2 CR which will kill BRZ/86 all day long. Yes the S2000 won't have a warranty but as long as you maintain it these cars are extremely reliable and very easy to work on unlike the engine in the BRZ/86. Also if you bought a slightly older model like an 2006 you could probably be under $20,000 and have $8k for mods or just to pocket.

I do know (or think I know) that it seems to be more expensive to own an older car in the UK due to taxes and emissions is that correct? If so I could see why the GT-86 or BRZ would be a better buy if you have to pay out the nose for a used car.

I know my prices are based on the US market but I would think that there is a fairly similar price gap between the 2 over there. Also OEM hardtops are dirt cheap in the UK so if you get an S2000 scoop one of those up for it.

ECG1000

It depends really. It can vary between models.
I used to have a 2008 MKV R32 which cost £450+ a year for road tax. If I had a 2006 MKV R32, I'd only have to pay £260 a year for road tax.

I'm not too bothered about road tax etc.
I'm just quite sensitive to older cars going wrong and like to comfort of a warranty. All boils down to bad experience I has with a B18'd EM1 coupe. Long story short: I spent a fortune getting the engine rebuilt thinking that would be the end of my problems. I was wrong.

I also like the sound of the GT86 being easy to slide and not overly snappy.
I haven't driven one so can't be sure on that. Just going from what I've heard.