Oct 3 Autocross
10-04-2004, 02:52 AM
#11
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That was an interesting course... challenging and I didn't find my rhythm until it was too late. The theme for this event was pure car control.
FWIW, I edged out Steve since the change I made to the car only improved on the driving feel while Steve had to learn a borrowed set of unfamiliar Hoosiers on unusual offset Spoon wheels, so it's not like I got really good all of the sudden and beat our resident champ, I probably got a wee-bit faster while Steve wasn't as fast as he would be on his SSR's. The sun wasn't shining much today but it was enough to shine on my butt today. Woo hoo! (woof, woof!)
Recap: The normal driving formula didn't work this time, in other words the way we've approached the previous events was completely different for this event. Power wasn't ever the issue, (if Colin and I got into a power versus grip argument, I'd lose big time this month).
The keys to this event was...
1. Taking the slaloms on the correct sides. Sounds stupid? I went the wrong direction twice. This time, taking the wrong side into the slaloms makes you pay with an hour tacked onto your times (well a few seconds). There's something called Reward and Punishment. Entering the slaloms on the correct side rewards you with an nice path into the next section (we call this path a "line") Entering it from the wrong side punishes you with a super-tight exit killing all speed and forcing you to make a huge correction in your steering getting out of the slalom.
2. Smoothness. You absolutely do not want to be anything but smooth... the course has you transitioning side to side for almost 75% of the run and the spacing between the cones vary a lot, sometimes it looks wide, then gets tighter than wide again then super tight in the end. Not only do you need to be smooth on the steering, you need to watch your speed so you don't overshoot the cones AND you don't want to be driving slower than you need to.
Mike Friedman kicked both our asses in Steve's car, tied for 1st place in SM2 with Jason Tokunaga with identical times... wtf?
FWIW, I edged out Steve since the change I made to the car only improved on the driving feel while Steve had to learn a borrowed set of unfamiliar Hoosiers on unusual offset Spoon wheels, so it's not like I got really good all of the sudden and beat our resident champ, I probably got a wee-bit faster while Steve wasn't as fast as he would be on his SSR's. The sun wasn't shining much today but it was enough to shine on my butt today. Woo hoo! (woof, woof!)
Recap: The normal driving formula didn't work this time, in other words the way we've approached the previous events was completely different for this event. Power wasn't ever the issue, (if Colin and I got into a power versus grip argument, I'd lose big time this month).
The keys to this event was...
1. Taking the slaloms on the correct sides. Sounds stupid? I went the wrong direction twice. This time, taking the wrong side into the slaloms makes you pay with an hour tacked onto your times (well a few seconds). There's something called Reward and Punishment. Entering the slaloms on the correct side rewards you with an nice path into the next section (we call this path a "line") Entering it from the wrong side punishes you with a super-tight exit killing all speed and forcing you to make a huge correction in your steering getting out of the slalom.
2. Smoothness. You absolutely do not want to be anything but smooth... the course has you transitioning side to side for almost 75% of the run and the spacing between the cones vary a lot, sometimes it looks wide, then gets tighter than wide again then super tight in the end. Not only do you need to be smooth on the steering, you need to watch your speed so you don't overshoot the cones AND you don't want to be driving slower than you need to.
Mike Friedman kicked both our asses in Steve's car, tied for 1st place in SM2 with Jason Tokunaga with identical times... wtf?
10-04-2004, 07:33 AM
#12
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Steve, thanks again for letting me support the S2k's. Everytime I drive one it makes me rethink my car choice, if it only had more space. I would love to felt your car on it's normal setup.
Lucky for me they had timing issues on my first run. It took me the first three to get the almost snap oversteer out of the car. With such a techical course and the big change is rim/tire setup it would have taken a while to get the car to grip better.
Good job Steve and Jimmy on the top 15 finish out of 73 cars.
The timing was right, we were on different sides of the grid, but only to have -.001 on the time to take the trophy solo. 
Lucky for me they had timing issues on my first run. It took me the first three to get the almost snap oversteer out of the car. With such a techical course and the big change is rim/tire setup it would have taken a while to get the car to grip better.
Good job Steve and Jimmy on the top 15 finish out of 73 cars.
tied for 1st place in SM2 with Jason Tokunaga with identical times... wtf?
10-04-2004, 10:31 AM
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Yup...not a good course for the '04 stock S2000....I was stuck in 1st gear for the entire first half of the course, which made it tough to be smooth. Like everyone else is saying, it was TIGHT. Even on the 2nd half I was barely able to hit VTEC in 2nd gear. Yesterday definitely makes me want to get a set of race tires......
10-05-2004, 12:03 AM
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Oddly enough, the course was a bit too tight from what I understand from course layout books for SCCA Solo2. The course favored heavily upon cars with aftermarket suspension since it incorporated a ton of slaloms, so most of the course was spent dealing with the side to side driving action which gives cars with improved compression control a major edge.
If you look at the results, all of the top 10 cars had some modification to their suspension in the form of springs, coilovers, and/or shocks. I've also discovered that I'm the fastest using complete OEM springs and OEM shocks, some of the others use at the very least aftermarket shocks which I know makes a ton of difference in adding stability in the slaloms. This was a strange event... I mean, I somehow managed to beat out both the Van Ormans (well Ken wasn't in his usual car).
Mike Singleton was fast in his MY04... it was tight and hard on his tires but he did a great job nonetheless. Stephen was not in the groove due to having different shoes for this event, and Mike Friedman mopped it all up and took it upon himself to remind us just how good he is. Mark Lane made his cameo appearance and showed up for a very tough auto-x event.
If you look at the results, all of the top 10 cars had some modification to their suspension in the form of springs, coilovers, and/or shocks. I've also discovered that I'm the fastest using complete OEM springs and OEM shocks, some of the others use at the very least aftermarket shocks which I know makes a ton of difference in adding stability in the slaloms. This was a strange event... I mean, I somehow managed to beat out both the Van Ormans (well Ken wasn't in his usual car).
Mike Singleton was fast in his MY04... it was tight and hard on his tires but he did a great job nonetheless. Stephen was not in the groove due to having different shoes for this event, and Mike Friedman mopped it all up and took it upon himself to remind us just how good he is. Mark Lane made his cameo appearance and showed up for a very tough auto-x event.
10-05-2004, 07:07 PM
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http://www.sccahawaii.org/Race8.html
I think the spots on their shirts are tire marks from being run over by S2000's.
I think the spots on their shirts are tire marks from being run over by S2000's.
10-05-2004, 07:30 PM
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LOL. Well, don't count them out yet, the Miata mob drivers have a way to sneak up and kick our butts if we get too proud. I think we should team up with the Miata guys and take out the turbo AWD's, hehe.
10-06-2004, 12:00 AM
#17
Originally Posted by Hyper-X,Oct 5 2004, 07:30 PM
I think we should team up with the Miata guys and take out the turbo AWD's, hehe.
The first portion of the course was pretty worthless and it didn't really begin until after that. Perhaps if they were spaced further apart.
This definitely was not a power course but a patience, consistency, and smoothness course like I mentioned in the FH forum. A total equalizer IMO since no one type of car really owned the course. Myself excluded, you had AWDs, RWDs, and FWDs of various classes all getting sub 60s runs.
In my defense, had I been clean I would of had a semi-respectable mid 58 s run. This would of put me in my typical teens placement.
Just so you guys don't think I am a hater; I am a honda guy at heart. It is just that my Honda screwed up with the front wheels driven and the motor pointing sideways.
10-06-2004, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by markpaco,Oct 5 2004, 10:00 PM
In my defense, had I been clean I would of had a semi-respectable mid 58 s run. This would of put me in my typical teens placement.
now for my excuse
had i not hit a cone at the beginning, i woulda had a 57.5xx, which woulda been good for 5th overall, and i dunno what pax...
oh well, there's always next month
10-06-2004, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by markpaco,Oct 5 2004, 10:00 PM
Never!
The first portion of the course was pretty worthless and it didn't really begin until after that. Perhaps if they were spaced further apart.
This definitely was not a power course but a patience, consistency, and smoothness course like I mentioned in the FH forum. A total equalizer IMO since no one type of car really owned the course. Myself excluded, you had AWDs, RWDs, and FWDs of various classes all getting sub 60s runs.
In my defense, had I been clean I would of had a semi-respectable mid 58 s run. This would of put me in my typical teens placement.
Just so you guys don't think I am a hater; I am a honda guy at heart. It is just that my Honda screwed up with the front wheels driven and the motor pointing sideways.
The first portion of the course was pretty worthless and it didn't really begin until after that. Perhaps if they were spaced further apart.
This definitely was not a power course but a patience, consistency, and smoothness course like I mentioned in the FH forum. A total equalizer IMO since no one type of car really owned the course. Myself excluded, you had AWDs, RWDs, and FWDs of various classes all getting sub 60s runs.
In my defense, had I been clean I would of had a semi-respectable mid 58 s run. This would of put me in my typical teens placement.
Just so you guys don't think I am a hater; I am a honda guy at heart. It is just that my Honda screwed up with the front wheels driven and the motor pointing sideways.
Mark, you're the king of smooth and you put on a nice show with the spin, so now you're indicted into the Spinners Club as a new member, hehe.
You're absolutely right about the course not being about power, I had only a fraction of a second to put down 100% power and it often penalized me with a hot entry into the slalom (not good). Cone killing was the theme this month and I almost had the cone killer award in the bag until Matsu topped my 5 cone performance with 10 of his own, Francis also had 5, Cliff Goto and Dan Libutti both had 6 each.
Jayson would've smoked everybody again this month except for that blasted cone (who put the cone there anyway?). Mark Pacpaco should've turned better times since car control appears to be his strong point and it appeared to me at one section standing at the crossover that his slalom technique was slowly improving from clearing cones at 3-4 inches on 1 run to about 1 inch from the base of the cones in another... I was a bit worried that he'd turn times I couldn't touch.
We need to do this next month again.
10-06-2004, 12:47 AM
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Here's what I posted on the Miata forums...
I'm almost positive that some of us left a lot of time out there.
That was a fun course and a good test to help measure where my skill level is at... far below what I'd imagined. I think what helped me was a couple of hp provided from my new Mugen magnets Avery was so kind in making for me (you the man Avery and thanks!)
The course wasn't really tight to the point where I considered it that way, I looked at it more like it was a course demanding pure car control and careful attention to the speed in which to approach the slaloms. The driver who chose their speeds best and carved a steady-smooth line was going to be fast. It didn't give any real opportunities for guys like me to make use of full power save for the off-camber area and the section after the crossover where we had a split second to open it up.
Most of the course was spent dealing with transitioning side to side and putting a lot of stress to the outer edge of the tires (my pyrometer registered 35F more for this event when ambient track temps were 20F cooler). This type of course seperated the cars on stock to semi-stock suspension from the well damped ones with improved compression damping offering better stability in the slaloms.
The course wasn't really tight to the point where I considered it that way, I looked at it more like it was a course demanding pure car control and careful attention to the speed in which to approach the slaloms. The driver who chose their speeds best and carved a steady-smooth line was going to be fast. It didn't give any real opportunities for guys like me to make use of full power save for the off-camber area and the section after the crossover where we had a split second to open it up.
Most of the course was spent dealing with transitioning side to side and putting a lot of stress to the outer edge of the tires (my pyrometer registered 35F more for this event when ambient track temps were 20F cooler). This type of course seperated the cars on stock to semi-stock suspension from the well damped ones with improved compression damping offering better stability in the slaloms.