Autocross December 21st and S2000 Analysis
12-21-2003, 02:20 AM
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Autocross December 21st and S2000 Analysis
Here's the schedule, see you there!
December 21 Hawaii Raceway Park
Heat 1: ESP, FSP, All Modified
Heat 2: All Prepared, STS, SM
Heat 3: All Stock
Heat 4: ASP, BSP, CSP, DSP
December 21 Hawaii Raceway Park
Heat 1: ESP, FSP, All Modified
Heat 2: All Prepared, STS, SM
Heat 3: All Stock
Heat 4: ASP, BSP, CSP, DSP
12-21-2003, 02:21 AM
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Once again, it's that time again for some Solo 2 racing...
Steven and Colin did a great job last month with one of them placing 6th overall... wow! There's been some interesting talk about how they're discussing things regarding moving the S2000's out of B stock into A stock. IMO, I feel it's a bad move since the S2000 won't be competetive since it'd be seriously outclassed by cars having almost 100% more torque, vastly superior traction, bigger motors and boost! (okay, I just described the STI). They'll need to move them into SS or something perhaps, but we'll see. It's not like S2000 drivers are going to let the current AS cars walk all over them without a fight!
I've been studying and watching the STI closely over the past few months and I've heard comments like how a well driven STI can be beaten by a well driven S2000. I know that if you play the odds, the S2000 will lose... especially at HRP. This year's data clearly shows that I can get pretty close to their numbers in some cases, but almost all of the STI's are running OEM tires, (not R compounds like me) and on stock alignment.
The S2000's biggest weakness is (believe it or not) not power nor torque... it's traction during hard exits. I've learned many different techniques and approaches in order to drive my car fast, and by using R compound tires taught me that having them is a give and take situation. It does allow me to push through the cones 1 or 2 levels harder where the OEM tires would give out, but sharp exits at slow, medium or high speeds are worse than with OEM tires because the fronts have increased grip (with R compounds) that the rears end up swinging out like a switchblade. This can be attributed to the stiff rear suspension making things worse. Anyone who attempts to mimic my setup will quickly learn that the edge of control and out of control is incredibly thin. I've altered my driving technique to compensate but all it does is kill forward motion in order to maintain grip (which is very bad since the S2000 doesn't pick up speed quickly).
I really feel that I've managed to learn the extreme limits of the S2000 without altering anything but the tires and finally ready to make fine adjustments to explore the next few levels. It's quite easy to jump into a suspension modded car and make good times, and IMO it takes far more skill to control a factory tuned car with hardly any mods (like Leslie Ooi driving his MX6).
Here's my current thoughts of the S2000's performance at HRP...
1. The S2000 is a very sensitive car, to drive it fast in SCCA... you actually need to drive it more calmly than with most other types of cars.
2. The OEM suspension is well tuned from the factory but a little too firm in the rears for MY00-01 causing snappiness. Softening up the rears or stiffening up the fronts through adjustments in spring rates or sway bars will help correct this without altering the car's behavior drastically.
3. Aftermarket suspension upgrades may not prove as huge of a difference as most would think. The OEM suspension has very good compression control and doesn't roll much even when pushed at the limits. However, dampening the rebound should be the most fruitful controlling excessive liveliness on poorly paved or uneven surfaces making for a more comfortable driving experience.
4. Contrary to what a more experienced driver has told me about the S2000... removing the spare tire is the better move. Having more weight in the rear, combined with race rubber only increases the chances of oversteer, and worsens the power to weight ratio (absolutely critical to watch on this car). Having just enough fuel in the tank to prevent fuel starvation and removing the spare (and any other junk in the trunk) will help control an S2000 on stock alignment.
5. Aftermarket shocks is something I've thought about for a long time. I have to go with Solo2Racer Brad on this one... I don't have a problem with it really. It's not the shocks that I have a problem with, it's the spring rate of the rears that are a bit too high for Solo 2.
There's more but I think I've covered the basics, but these are just my impressions and thoughts based on my own experiences and aren't meant to express anything as a fact for the general public.
Now the big question... "where the #^!& is my Saner bar, it's been over 3 months!"
Steven and Colin did a great job last month with one of them placing 6th overall... wow! There's been some interesting talk about how they're discussing things regarding moving the S2000's out of B stock into A stock. IMO, I feel it's a bad move since the S2000 won't be competetive since it'd be seriously outclassed by cars having almost 100% more torque, vastly superior traction, bigger motors and boost! (okay, I just described the STI). They'll need to move them into SS or something perhaps, but we'll see. It's not like S2000 drivers are going to let the current AS cars walk all over them without a fight!
I've been studying and watching the STI closely over the past few months and I've heard comments like how a well driven STI can be beaten by a well driven S2000. I know that if you play the odds, the S2000 will lose... especially at HRP. This year's data clearly shows that I can get pretty close to their numbers in some cases, but almost all of the STI's are running OEM tires, (not R compounds like me) and on stock alignment.
The S2000's biggest weakness is (believe it or not) not power nor torque... it's traction during hard exits. I've learned many different techniques and approaches in order to drive my car fast, and by using R compound tires taught me that having them is a give and take situation. It does allow me to push through the cones 1 or 2 levels harder where the OEM tires would give out, but sharp exits at slow, medium or high speeds are worse than with OEM tires because the fronts have increased grip (with R compounds) that the rears end up swinging out like a switchblade. This can be attributed to the stiff rear suspension making things worse. Anyone who attempts to mimic my setup will quickly learn that the edge of control and out of control is incredibly thin. I've altered my driving technique to compensate but all it does is kill forward motion in order to maintain grip (which is very bad since the S2000 doesn't pick up speed quickly).
I really feel that I've managed to learn the extreme limits of the S2000 without altering anything but the tires and finally ready to make fine adjustments to explore the next few levels. It's quite easy to jump into a suspension modded car and make good times, and IMO it takes far more skill to control a factory tuned car with hardly any mods (like Leslie Ooi driving his MX6).
Here's my current thoughts of the S2000's performance at HRP...
1. The S2000 is a very sensitive car, to drive it fast in SCCA... you actually need to drive it more calmly than with most other types of cars.
2. The OEM suspension is well tuned from the factory but a little too firm in the rears for MY00-01 causing snappiness. Softening up the rears or stiffening up the fronts through adjustments in spring rates or sway bars will help correct this without altering the car's behavior drastically.
3. Aftermarket suspension upgrades may not prove as huge of a difference as most would think. The OEM suspension has very good compression control and doesn't roll much even when pushed at the limits. However, dampening the rebound should be the most fruitful controlling excessive liveliness on poorly paved or uneven surfaces making for a more comfortable driving experience.
4. Contrary to what a more experienced driver has told me about the S2000... removing the spare tire is the better move. Having more weight in the rear, combined with race rubber only increases the chances of oversteer, and worsens the power to weight ratio (absolutely critical to watch on this car). Having just enough fuel in the tank to prevent fuel starvation and removing the spare (and any other junk in the trunk) will help control an S2000 on stock alignment.
5. Aftermarket shocks is something I've thought about for a long time. I have to go with Solo2Racer Brad on this one... I don't have a problem with it really. It's not the shocks that I have a problem with, it's the spring rate of the rears that are a bit too high for Solo 2.
There's more but I think I've covered the basics, but these are just my impressions and thoughts based on my own experiences and aren't meant to express anything as a fact for the general public.
Now the big question... "where the #^!& is my Saner bar, it's been over 3 months!"
12-21-2003, 03:25 AM
#3
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wow! That's some detailed observation.
All I could say about my last runs is:
Even with R compound rubber I was slip sliding everywhere.
Even after 4 runs I hadn't mastered the last section of the track and left a lot of time there.
Obviously I'll never give enough input to race prep a serious car.
Jimmy, have they given you any explanation as to why the delay on the Saner bar? I was considering ordering from them, but I cannot tolerate businesses that run unprofessionally, no matter how cheap.
See you tomorrow morning.
All I could say about my last runs is:
Even with R compound rubber I was slip sliding everywhere.
Even after 4 runs I hadn't mastered the last section of the track and left a lot of time there.
Obviously I'll never give enough input to race prep a serious car.
Jimmy, have they given you any explanation as to why the delay on the Saner bar? I was considering ordering from them, but I cannot tolerate businesses that run unprofessionally, no matter how cheap.
See you tomorrow morning.
12-22-2003, 09:46 AM
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sti masks driver imperfections > leads to driver driving stupidly (overdriving car) > leads to new driving state of mind for the next 2 months > leads to bdrift (who hits a cone each run in the first turn!!. haha b
i will now practice with my 240 to get me driving realistically again.
i will now practice with my 240 to get me driving realistically again.
12-22-2003, 01:54 PM
#7
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Well, the S2000 crown must go back to the senpai 
Colin managed to rip his last 3 runs in the 56's. Very consistent work. I fought each run to improve and only managed to get in the 56's on the last run (phew!). Jimmy was up to his usual tricks (always the crowd pleaser
). I didn't get to see any spins this time though!
Curtis was looking ever the dominator with no one near his 51.xx as usual. The closest was Ken Van Orn (sp.?) in his old gen. M3 in the 53.xx
He's a damn good driver.
The 3 S2000's entered got 2 of the top 10 slots for overall time. The third S2000 was VERY close and came in at #11 overall. That would be awesome for all 3 S2000's to make the top 10 on the next event (can Jimmy do it with his stock machine?....
).
See you guys next month.
Colin managed to rip his last 3 runs in the 56's. Very consistent work. I fought each run to improve and only managed to get in the 56's on the last run (phew!). Jimmy was up to his usual tricks (always the crowd pleaser
). I didn't get to see any spins this time though! Curtis was looking ever the dominator with no one near his 51.xx as usual. The closest was Ken Van Orn (sp.?) in his old gen. M3 in the 53.xx
He's a damn good driver.
The 3 S2000's entered got 2 of the top 10 slots for overall time. The third S2000 was VERY close and came in at #11 overall. That would be awesome for all 3 S2000's to make the top 10 on the next event (can Jimmy do it with his stock machine?....
).See you guys next month.
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12-22-2003, 04:22 PM
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I got into the 57's because I took the shortcut through the cones, not around... hehe.
From what I know now, the part that costed me the most amount of time was those 3 cone slanted slaloms. In order to achieve the best times, it was best to run past the 1 set and enter before the 2nd. Each run I made, I entered before the 1st taking off tons of speed. After watching the recap at Colin's house, I noticed that you guys took it correctly and carried a lot of speed.
I was under the impression that you HAD to run it the way I did it, which is enter before the 1st set of cones. Now I know better and that's where I may've made up the time to jump into 10th overall. Dammit, oh well... hard lessons are learned this way and I won't make the same mistake next month!
From what I know now, the part that costed me the most amount of time was those 3 cone slanted slaloms. In order to achieve the best times, it was best to run past the 1 set and enter before the 2nd. Each run I made, I entered before the 1st taking off tons of speed. After watching the recap at Colin's house, I noticed that you guys took it correctly and carried a lot of speed.
I was under the impression that you HAD to run it the way I did it, which is enter before the 1st set of cones. Now I know better and that's where I may've made up the time to jump into 10th overall. Dammit, oh well... hard lessons are learned this way and I won't make the same mistake next month!