2nd gear issue
02-24-2005, 11:58 PM
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2nd gear issue
hey guys,
been looking around on the forums about this second gear grind... not sure if that's what it is, but i do notice this. whenever the car is cool (sitting around for a long time, in the morning or after work), it seems that i have to shift really slowly, in order for it not to be rough whenever i get it in 2nd gear. after driving for about 20 min, it'll be fine with the rough feeling once in a great while. i guess after it warms up, it's better? i can also shift faster..
i can't really explain this well. i'm not sure if that's what that notchiness feel is, i don't really know what notchy feels like.
i guess, when you guys/gals drive, is it smooth all the time when shifting 1 to 2? or am i jus driving bad?
been looking around on the forums about this second gear grind... not sure if that's what it is, but i do notice this. whenever the car is cool (sitting around for a long time, in the morning or after work), it seems that i have to shift really slowly, in order for it not to be rough whenever i get it in 2nd gear. after driving for about 20 min, it'll be fine with the rough feeling once in a great while. i guess after it warms up, it's better? i can also shift faster..
i can't really explain this well. i'm not sure if that's what that notchiness feel is, i don't really know what notchy feels like.
i guess, when you guys/gals drive, is it smooth all the time when shifting 1 to 2? or am i jus driving bad?
02-25-2005, 05:27 PM
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This is normal for 2000-2003 cars. Second and Third gears use triple cone synchronizers and these have more "gear engagement feel" than the other gears, especially when cold. You are describing the Notchy feel that is all over the boards.
02-25-2005, 05:45 PM
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Sorry I missed that 
No, the 2004 and 2005 cars use double cone carbon fiber synchros for 2nd nad 3rd. These are MUCH better than the older cars, heck, sometimes I used to "double clutch" in the mornings. I;m not sure what you mean by "really slowly" but I can shift with no problems with only a slight pause between gears. How slight? Well maybe 1000-2000 rpm fall off before I let the clutch out. Say "thousand-one" then shift.
No, the 2004 and 2005 cars use double cone carbon fiber synchros for 2nd nad 3rd. These are MUCH better than the older cars, heck, sometimes I used to "double clutch" in the mornings. I;m not sure what you mean by "really slowly" but I can shift with no problems with only a slight pause between gears. How slight? Well maybe 1000-2000 rpm fall off before I let the clutch out. Say "thousand-one" then shift.
02-26-2005, 11:39 PM
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yea, that's about how slow i shift til my car warms up. ok, well if that's normal then. it's jus i dont like it when the car behind me is up my butt because i have to shift slower than usual. thanks again!
03-01-2005, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by naruto,Feb 26 2005, 10:39 PM
yea, that's about how slow i shift til my car warms up. ok, well if that's normal then. it's jus i dont like it when the car behind me is up my butt because i have to shift slower than usual. thanks again!
how fast do you shift in everyday driving? I must be a pussy shifter because my "warm up" shifting is mostly the same as my normal driving shifting! No wonder Steve beats me at the track. His .01 faster auto-x times must be because I shift too slow! 
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03-01-2005, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Colin,Mar 1 2005, 01:28 PM
Jeez, how fast do you shift in everyday driving? I must be a pussy shifter because my "warm up" shifting is mostly the same as my normal driving shifting! No wonder Steve beats me at the track. His .01 faster auto-x times must be because I shift too slow!
how fast do you shift in everyday driving? I must be a pussy shifter because my "warm up" shifting is mostly the same as my normal driving shifting! No wonder Steve beats me at the track. His .01 faster auto-x times must be because I shift too slow! 
).
03-02-2005, 09:45 AM
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My 04 has the same notchiness in 1->2 shifts when it's cold. I find that shifting above 4000 RPM helps.
Something I read on here about the problem said that it's not hurting the car at all, and actually Honda designed the tranny that way on purpose. They'd rather have a tranny that's going to be solid when you're shifting at 8K with WOT and is a little notchy when cold versus a tranny that's always butter smooth, but is going to break on you after 50K miles when you're driving hard.
Something I read on here about the problem said that it's not hurting the car at all, and actually Honda designed the tranny that way on purpose. They'd rather have a tranny that's going to be solid when you're shifting at 8K with WOT and is a little notchy when cold versus a tranny that's always butter smooth, but is going to break on you after 50K miles when you're driving hard.
03-06-2005, 07:41 AM
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The feeling you get when you "grind" is often based on numerous factors however the most common being the fluid temp (based on higher viscosity when cold) and also how the syncros work.
If you speed shift from 1 gear to the next, you aren't allowing the syncros to do their job so it will feel very notchy. This is based on the fact that the rpms are not matched up (which is why double clutching makes it feel like butter going UP the gears, which isn't very common).
When your car's cold, the fluids that allow for smoother shifts aren't circulated well and not coating the tighter areas between the gears and syncros. The viscosity of the fluid is at its highest and only after it warms up will it start to flow better (like oil in a heated pan versus cold oil in a cold pan) and start lubricating all the parts.
This isn't really a problem by far, but keep in mind that when you car is cold and just warming up, you should be driving a little more conservatively than when it's fully ready to go. BTW, 3 bars on your water temp gauge is NOT a clear indication of whether your car is warmed up... that can only be based off a gauge not normally found on stock S2k's... which is an oil temp gauge.
If you speed shift from 1 gear to the next, you aren't allowing the syncros to do their job so it will feel very notchy. This is based on the fact that the rpms are not matched up (which is why double clutching makes it feel like butter going UP the gears, which isn't very common).
When your car's cold, the fluids that allow for smoother shifts aren't circulated well and not coating the tighter areas between the gears and syncros. The viscosity of the fluid is at its highest and only after it warms up will it start to flow better (like oil in a heated pan versus cold oil in a cold pan) and start lubricating all the parts.
This isn't really a problem by far, but keep in mind that when you car is cold and just warming up, you should be driving a little more conservatively than when it's fully ready to go. BTW, 3 bars on your water temp gauge is NOT a clear indication of whether your car is warmed up... that can only be based off a gauge not normally found on stock S2k's... which is an oil temp gauge.