09 NFL FOOTBALL SEASON
#781
Originally Posted by ChaserAero,Jan 27 2010, 10:19 AM
Thats the one thing that bugs me...
I moved to Baltimore long after the Colts left, so I could care less.
I moved to Baltimore long after the Colts left, so I could care less.
#783
lol, yeah, "couldn't" seems more appropriate.
From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indianapolis_...Baltimore_Colts
As far back as November 1971, Carroll Rosenbloom announced that the Colts would not return to Memorial Stadium when their lease ran out following the 1972 season and that he was not interested in negotiating with the city anymore.[5] He wanted out of Baltimore for a few reasons — money, problems with Baltimore Orioles ownership, a running feud with the Baltimore press, and his new wife's desire to move to the West Coast.[5][6] Will Keland, a real estate investor was originally slated to buy the Colts from Rosenbloom. However, Keland could not generate enough funds necessary to purchase the team. His golfing buddy, Robert Irsay who was originally slated to own 1 percent of the team, did have the money available and he realized that he didn't need Keland. On July 13, 1972, Robert Irsay became the owner of the Colts. Under the terms of the arrangement, Irsay bought the Los Angeles Rams for $19 million, then traded them to Rosenbloom for the Colts and $3 million in cash. The players for each team remained in their respective cities.
In 1971, Baltimore mayor William Donald Schaefer and the state's governor, Marvin Mandel, created a stadium committee to examine the city's stadium needs. Their report was a blow to Memorial Stadium. Some of the problems mentioned: 10,000 stadium's seats had views that were "less than desirable"; 20,000 seats were out-dated bench seats that had no back support; 7,000 so called seats were actually poorly-constructed temporary bleachers that were installed for football games only. Also, there was not enough office space adequate enough for the front offices of either the Orioles or Colts, much less both teams combined. Both teams had to share locker rooms, the upper deck of Memorial Stadium did not circle the field, ending instead at the 50-yard line, thousands of potential seats (and added revenue) were missing. Any expansion plans for the stadium had usually mentioned less attractive (and less expensive) end-zone seats, not upper deck seating. And the number of bathroom facilities in Memorial Stadium was deemed inadequate.[5]
Maryland's planners came up with an ambitious project. Nicknamed the "Baltodome",[7] the original plan was to create a facility near the city's Inner Harbor known as Camden Yards. The new stadium would host 70,000 fans for football games, 55,000 for baseball and 20,000 as an arena for hockey or basketball. For an estimated $78 million, the city would build a facility that would have kept all parties happy; Orioles owner Hoffberger, Colts owner Irsay, the Stadium Complex Authority, Baltimore Mayor Schaefer and the state's governor, Marvin Mandel.[5]
But the proposal did not receive support to pass the Maryland legislature, in spite of assurances that contributions from taxpayers would be limited strictly to city and state loans. Stadium Complex Authority chairman Ed Rovner issued an important statement about the project, "A major consideration in Mr. Irsay's trading of franchises was the city's firm commitment to proceed with these plans."[5][7] But on February 27, 1974 Maryland's Governor Mandel pulled the plug on the idea.[7] Robert Irsay was willing to wait. "I'm a patient man. I think the people of Baltimore are going to see those new stadiums in New Orleans and Seattle opening in a year or two around the country, and they are going to realize they need a stadium ... for conventions and other things besides football."[5][7]
But Hyman Pressman, Baltimore's comptroller, was against the use of public funds to build a new complex. During the 1974 elections, Pressman had an amendment to the city's charter placed on the fall ballot. Known as Question P,[5] the amendment called for declaring "the 33rd Street stadium as a memorial to war veterans and prohibiting use of city funds for construction of any other stadium." The measure passed 56 percent to 44 percent, and the same jingoistic ideas that had been used to upgrade the then Baltimore Stadium (Originally built in 1922) in the late 40s and rename it Memorial Stadium, effectively destroyed any chance of a new, modern sports complex being built in Baltimore.[5][7]
Although the Colts made the playoffs for three straight years from 1975-77, there had still been no progress made on a new park for the team. Robert Irsay first spoke with Phoenix, Arizona in 1976 and then Indianapolis, Indiana in 1977 about the possibility of relocating his team to one of those cities. In 1979 Irsay began shopping the Colts around in earnest, talking first to officials from the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum Commission, Memphis, Tennessee and Jacksonville, Florida[6] where he visited the Gator Bowl packed with 50,000 cheering fans trying to convince him that Jacksonville would be the best home for the Colts. That same year Irsay presented Maryland's Governor Harry Hughes with a request for $25 million in renovation to the dilapidated 64,124 seat Memorial Stadium[8]. Irsay's request for $25 million in improvements was decreased to $23 million by the Maryland legislature. The plan added more seats (but none of the revenue-generating skyboxes), improving the plumbing and would've given both teams better office space. The plans approval was contingent on both the Colts and Baltimore Orioles signing long term leases. The Orioles challenged the requested football improvements and refused to sign anything more than a one year lease. Irsay also refused to sign long term. As a result, the funds and improvements never came[5][8].
Under the administration of Mayor Richard Lugar and then continuing with William Hudnut, Indianapolis was making a serious effort to reinvent itself into a 'Great American City'. In 1979, Indianapolis community leaders created the Indiana Sports Corp. in order to attract major sports events to central Indiana. The next year, Indianapolis Mayor William Hudnut appointed a committee to study the feasibility of building a new stadium that could serve primarily as a boon to the city's convention business and, secondarily, as a lure for an NFL team [9]. In 1982 construction on the Hoosier Dome (later renamed the RCA Dome) began. Deputy Mayor David Frick, who would later lead the negotiations with the Colts and then go on to become chairman of the Indiana state commission that would oversee construction of the RCA Dome's replacement, Lucas Oil Stadium, would say that the RCA Dome was a key to changing the city's image. "Sports was an element in our game plan to change the image of the city back in the late 1970s, early 1980s,"[9]. In February 1983, after relations between Irsay and the city of Baltimore had deteriorated significantly, Baltimore Mayor Schaefer asked the Maryland General Assembly to approve $15 million for renovation to Memorial Stadium. The legislature did not approve the request until the following spring, after the Colts' lease had expired,[10] and only half of that $15 million would go towards improvements that the Colts were seeking (The other half for the Orioles'). However, Baltimore reportedly did offer Irsay a $15 million loan at 6.5%, a guarantee of at least 43,000 tickets sold per game for six years, and the purchase of the team's Owings Mills training facility for $4 million[6].
Irsay continued discussions with several cities hungry for an NFL franchise (New York, Phoenix, Indianapolis, Birmingham, Jacksonville and Memphis[11]) eventually narrowing the list of cities to two, Phoenix and Indianapolis.[12] A real estate group in Phoenix, Arizona along with Arizona Governor Bruce Babbitt and other top Arizona officials, had secretly met with Irsay early in January.[7] Preliminary talks seemed promising and another meeting was scheduled. But when word of a second scheduled meeting leaked out and was reported by the Baltimore media on the Friday before the Super Bowl, Irsay canceled.[12] Meanwhile, Indianapolis and local real estate developer Robert Welch, were lobbying the NFL to bring an expansion team to the city, with Welch as team owner. Welch had also had personal discussions with New Orleans Saints owner John Mecom about buying the team and moving it to Indianapolis. In January 1984, NFL Commissioner Pete Rozelle announced that expansion had been put on hold. As a result of that announcement, Indiana Pacers' owner Herb Simon contacted Colts officials in order to take negotiations between the club and Indianapolis to the next level. Mayor Hudnut then assigned deputy mayor David Frick to begin secret negotiations with Colts counsel Michael Chernoff. On February 13, Colts representatives came to town to look at the Hoosier Dome construction.[13] Colts owner Robert Irsay visited on February 23.
"He [Irsay] was visibly moved," former deputy mayor Dave Frick said commenting on Irsay's reaction to entering the brand new domed stadium. "Emotionally, he was making the move."[13] Meanwhile in Baltimore, the situation worsened. Eventually, the Maryland legislature intervened and on March 27, one of its chambers passed legislation giving the city of Baltimore the right to seize ownership of the team by eminent domain[6] (An idea first floated in a memo written by Baltimore Mayoral Aide Mark Wasserman). Robert Irsay said that his move was "a direct result" of the eminent domain bill and[8] Colts counsel Michael Chernoff would say of the move by the Maryland legislature "They not only threw down the gauntlet, but they put a gun to his head and cocked it and asked, 'Want to see if it's loaded?' They forced him to make a decision that day"[6][13].
Phoenix businessmen withdrew their offer the morning of March 28 and Irsay called the Indianapolis Mayor that afternoon and began serious negotiations in order to move the team before the Maryland legislature's other chamber could pass similar legislation. The city of Indianapolis offered the Colts owner a $12,500,000 loan, a $4,000,000 training complex, and the use of the brand new $77.5 million, 57,980 seat Hoosier Dome.[14] After Irsay agreed to the deal, the Indianapolis Mayor called John B. Smith, his friend, neighbor and chief executive officer of Mayflower Transit, and 15 trucks were dispatched to the team's Owings Mills, Maryland training complex at 2:00 AM on March 29 because it was feared the franchise would be seized early the following morning.[13] Workers loaded all of the team's belongings and the trucks left for Indianapolis. By 10:00 AM, the Colts were completely gone from Baltimore.[15]
Each of the Mayflower trucks took a slightly different route on the way to Indianapolis. This was done to confuse the Maryland police, who could've been called on to put a stop to the move. Once each van was at the Indiana state line, it was met by Indiana state troopers, who escorted each van to the Colts new home in Indianapolis. Later John Moag, Jr., chairman of the Maryland Stadium Authority, stated in sworn testimony before the U.S. Senate subcommittee responsible for the Fan Freedom and Community Protection Act: "It was the failure of our local (Baltimore) and state elected officials in Maryland to provide the Colts with a firm proposal for a new stadium that led Mr. Irsay to accept an offer from Indianapolis to play in a new dome in that city."[16]
Baltimore's Mayor Schaefer, who had been promised a call by Irsay if the team was to move (but never received one)[citation needed], appeared on the front page of the Baltimore Sun in tears. After the Colts left, he placed the building of a new stadium at the top of his legislative agenda.[8]
Indianapolis Mayor Hudnut held a press conference March 29 to announce an agreement had been reached and the team was on its way to Indianapolis. The deal was sealed March 30 with approval by the Capital Improvement Board, which operated the Hoosier Dome. Two days later, 20,000 new Colts fans cheered as Mayor Hudnut proclaimed March 29, 1984, "one of the greatest days in the history of this city."[9].
My favorite part, the new paragraph is titled "Baltimore Moves On" - clearly not...
All they wanted was a new stadium and a few offices. MD Legislation wouldn't give them what they needed. Indy would.
From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indianapolis_...Baltimore_Colts
As far back as November 1971, Carroll Rosenbloom announced that the Colts would not return to Memorial Stadium when their lease ran out following the 1972 season and that he was not interested in negotiating with the city anymore.[5] He wanted out of Baltimore for a few reasons — money, problems with Baltimore Orioles ownership, a running feud with the Baltimore press, and his new wife's desire to move to the West Coast.[5][6] Will Keland, a real estate investor was originally slated to buy the Colts from Rosenbloom. However, Keland could not generate enough funds necessary to purchase the team. His golfing buddy, Robert Irsay who was originally slated to own 1 percent of the team, did have the money available and he realized that he didn't need Keland. On July 13, 1972, Robert Irsay became the owner of the Colts. Under the terms of the arrangement, Irsay bought the Los Angeles Rams for $19 million, then traded them to Rosenbloom for the Colts and $3 million in cash. The players for each team remained in their respective cities.
In 1971, Baltimore mayor William Donald Schaefer and the state's governor, Marvin Mandel, created a stadium committee to examine the city's stadium needs. Their report was a blow to Memorial Stadium. Some of the problems mentioned: 10,000 stadium's seats had views that were "less than desirable"; 20,000 seats were out-dated bench seats that had no back support; 7,000 so called seats were actually poorly-constructed temporary bleachers that were installed for football games only. Also, there was not enough office space adequate enough for the front offices of either the Orioles or Colts, much less both teams combined. Both teams had to share locker rooms, the upper deck of Memorial Stadium did not circle the field, ending instead at the 50-yard line, thousands of potential seats (and added revenue) were missing. Any expansion plans for the stadium had usually mentioned less attractive (and less expensive) end-zone seats, not upper deck seating. And the number of bathroom facilities in Memorial Stadium was deemed inadequate.[5]
Maryland's planners came up with an ambitious project. Nicknamed the "Baltodome",[7] the original plan was to create a facility near the city's Inner Harbor known as Camden Yards. The new stadium would host 70,000 fans for football games, 55,000 for baseball and 20,000 as an arena for hockey or basketball. For an estimated $78 million, the city would build a facility that would have kept all parties happy; Orioles owner Hoffberger, Colts owner Irsay, the Stadium Complex Authority, Baltimore Mayor Schaefer and the state's governor, Marvin Mandel.[5]
But the proposal did not receive support to pass the Maryland legislature, in spite of assurances that contributions from taxpayers would be limited strictly to city and state loans. Stadium Complex Authority chairman Ed Rovner issued an important statement about the project, "A major consideration in Mr. Irsay's trading of franchises was the city's firm commitment to proceed with these plans."[5][7] But on February 27, 1974 Maryland's Governor Mandel pulled the plug on the idea.[7] Robert Irsay was willing to wait. "I'm a patient man. I think the people of Baltimore are going to see those new stadiums in New Orleans and Seattle opening in a year or two around the country, and they are going to realize they need a stadium ... for conventions and other things besides football."[5][7]
But Hyman Pressman, Baltimore's comptroller, was against the use of public funds to build a new complex. During the 1974 elections, Pressman had an amendment to the city's charter placed on the fall ballot. Known as Question P,[5] the amendment called for declaring "the 33rd Street stadium as a memorial to war veterans and prohibiting use of city funds for construction of any other stadium." The measure passed 56 percent to 44 percent, and the same jingoistic ideas that had been used to upgrade the then Baltimore Stadium (Originally built in 1922) in the late 40s and rename it Memorial Stadium, effectively destroyed any chance of a new, modern sports complex being built in Baltimore.[5][7]
Although the Colts made the playoffs for three straight years from 1975-77, there had still been no progress made on a new park for the team. Robert Irsay first spoke with Phoenix, Arizona in 1976 and then Indianapolis, Indiana in 1977 about the possibility of relocating his team to one of those cities. In 1979 Irsay began shopping the Colts around in earnest, talking first to officials from the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum Commission, Memphis, Tennessee and Jacksonville, Florida[6] where he visited the Gator Bowl packed with 50,000 cheering fans trying to convince him that Jacksonville would be the best home for the Colts. That same year Irsay presented Maryland's Governor Harry Hughes with a request for $25 million in renovation to the dilapidated 64,124 seat Memorial Stadium[8]. Irsay's request for $25 million in improvements was decreased to $23 million by the Maryland legislature. The plan added more seats (but none of the revenue-generating skyboxes), improving the plumbing and would've given both teams better office space. The plans approval was contingent on both the Colts and Baltimore Orioles signing long term leases. The Orioles challenged the requested football improvements and refused to sign anything more than a one year lease. Irsay also refused to sign long term. As a result, the funds and improvements never came[5][8].
Under the administration of Mayor Richard Lugar and then continuing with William Hudnut, Indianapolis was making a serious effort to reinvent itself into a 'Great American City'. In 1979, Indianapolis community leaders created the Indiana Sports Corp. in order to attract major sports events to central Indiana. The next year, Indianapolis Mayor William Hudnut appointed a committee to study the feasibility of building a new stadium that could serve primarily as a boon to the city's convention business and, secondarily, as a lure for an NFL team [9]. In 1982 construction on the Hoosier Dome (later renamed the RCA Dome) began. Deputy Mayor David Frick, who would later lead the negotiations with the Colts and then go on to become chairman of the Indiana state commission that would oversee construction of the RCA Dome's replacement, Lucas Oil Stadium, would say that the RCA Dome was a key to changing the city's image. "Sports was an element in our game plan to change the image of the city back in the late 1970s, early 1980s,"[9]. In February 1983, after relations between Irsay and the city of Baltimore had deteriorated significantly, Baltimore Mayor Schaefer asked the Maryland General Assembly to approve $15 million for renovation to Memorial Stadium. The legislature did not approve the request until the following spring, after the Colts' lease had expired,[10] and only half of that $15 million would go towards improvements that the Colts were seeking (The other half for the Orioles'). However, Baltimore reportedly did offer Irsay a $15 million loan at 6.5%, a guarantee of at least 43,000 tickets sold per game for six years, and the purchase of the team's Owings Mills training facility for $4 million[6].
Irsay continued discussions with several cities hungry for an NFL franchise (New York, Phoenix, Indianapolis, Birmingham, Jacksonville and Memphis[11]) eventually narrowing the list of cities to two, Phoenix and Indianapolis.[12] A real estate group in Phoenix, Arizona along with Arizona Governor Bruce Babbitt and other top Arizona officials, had secretly met with Irsay early in January.[7] Preliminary talks seemed promising and another meeting was scheduled. But when word of a second scheduled meeting leaked out and was reported by the Baltimore media on the Friday before the Super Bowl, Irsay canceled.[12] Meanwhile, Indianapolis and local real estate developer Robert Welch, were lobbying the NFL to bring an expansion team to the city, with Welch as team owner. Welch had also had personal discussions with New Orleans Saints owner John Mecom about buying the team and moving it to Indianapolis. In January 1984, NFL Commissioner Pete Rozelle announced that expansion had been put on hold. As a result of that announcement, Indiana Pacers' owner Herb Simon contacted Colts officials in order to take negotiations between the club and Indianapolis to the next level. Mayor Hudnut then assigned deputy mayor David Frick to begin secret negotiations with Colts counsel Michael Chernoff. On February 13, Colts representatives came to town to look at the Hoosier Dome construction.[13] Colts owner Robert Irsay visited on February 23.
"He [Irsay] was visibly moved," former deputy mayor Dave Frick said commenting on Irsay's reaction to entering the brand new domed stadium. "Emotionally, he was making the move."[13] Meanwhile in Baltimore, the situation worsened. Eventually, the Maryland legislature intervened and on March 27, one of its chambers passed legislation giving the city of Baltimore the right to seize ownership of the team by eminent domain[6] (An idea first floated in a memo written by Baltimore Mayoral Aide Mark Wasserman). Robert Irsay said that his move was "a direct result" of the eminent domain bill and[8] Colts counsel Michael Chernoff would say of the move by the Maryland legislature "They not only threw down the gauntlet, but they put a gun to his head and cocked it and asked, 'Want to see if it's loaded?' They forced him to make a decision that day"[6][13].
Phoenix businessmen withdrew their offer the morning of March 28 and Irsay called the Indianapolis Mayor that afternoon and began serious negotiations in order to move the team before the Maryland legislature's other chamber could pass similar legislation. The city of Indianapolis offered the Colts owner a $12,500,000 loan, a $4,000,000 training complex, and the use of the brand new $77.5 million, 57,980 seat Hoosier Dome.[14] After Irsay agreed to the deal, the Indianapolis Mayor called John B. Smith, his friend, neighbor and chief executive officer of Mayflower Transit, and 15 trucks were dispatched to the team's Owings Mills, Maryland training complex at 2:00 AM on March 29 because it was feared the franchise would be seized early the following morning.[13] Workers loaded all of the team's belongings and the trucks left for Indianapolis. By 10:00 AM, the Colts were completely gone from Baltimore.[15]
Each of the Mayflower trucks took a slightly different route on the way to Indianapolis. This was done to confuse the Maryland police, who could've been called on to put a stop to the move. Once each van was at the Indiana state line, it was met by Indiana state troopers, who escorted each van to the Colts new home in Indianapolis. Later John Moag, Jr., chairman of the Maryland Stadium Authority, stated in sworn testimony before the U.S. Senate subcommittee responsible for the Fan Freedom and Community Protection Act: "It was the failure of our local (Baltimore) and state elected officials in Maryland to provide the Colts with a firm proposal for a new stadium that led Mr. Irsay to accept an offer from Indianapolis to play in a new dome in that city."[16]
Baltimore's Mayor Schaefer, who had been promised a call by Irsay if the team was to move (but never received one)[citation needed], appeared on the front page of the Baltimore Sun in tears. After the Colts left, he placed the building of a new stadium at the top of his legislative agenda.[8]
Indianapolis Mayor Hudnut held a press conference March 29 to announce an agreement had been reached and the team was on its way to Indianapolis. The deal was sealed March 30 with approval by the Capital Improvement Board, which operated the Hoosier Dome. Two days later, 20,000 new Colts fans cheered as Mayor Hudnut proclaimed March 29, 1984, "one of the greatest days in the history of this city."[9].
My favorite part, the new paragraph is titled "Baltimore Moves On" - clearly not...
All they wanted was a new stadium and a few offices. MD Legislation wouldn't give them what they needed. Indy would.
#785
Yeah, I thought it was, shed light from both sides and non biased. The fans say "they just up and left" but Irsay left a) to give the Colts a better place to play, and b) to avoid the fans taking control of the team (immenant domain IIRC). Everyone blames Irsay, but MD legislation was the root. Irsay just found someone willing to give him/ the Colts what they needed to be successful. Can't blame him for that.
Hell, if your job sucks, and you find a job that gives you perks and more money, you'd probably take it. The 15 Mayflowers was just quitting by not showing up the next day for work.
Hell, if your job sucks, and you find a job that gives you perks and more money, you'd probably take it. The 15 Mayflowers was just quitting by not showing up the next day for work.
#789
Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight,Jan 27 2010, 01:30 PM
What's wrong with Joe?
#790
Originally Posted by 3AFL S2K,Jan 27 2010, 01:33 PM
i know its difficult to express sarcasm on the computer, but i just wanted to confirm that you were infact being sarcastic.