SinsinS2000

So last night after work I hit my usual gas station near my office, Hess. As I pull up to the island I notice a new sticker on all the pumps that was not there the week before when I filled up. (And no, I didn't get Regular Unleaded!)



So the question for everyone (and our resident chemist, Captain especially) is, how much ethanol is usually mixed in with our petroleum? I know it's a small amount but the new posting leads me to believe that Hess is now offering a more diluted gas and I for one, do not want crappier gas and lower mileage. And if their gas quality hasn't changed, then the new notice is misleading and may have customers, such as myself , going elswhere.

Anyone else noticing notices likes these posted at their local stations?

FL S2K

The first time I pumped gas (Murphy Brand), I got 170 miles on the whole tank... and it had the same sticker.

SinsinS2000

Thanks to good 'ol Wikipedia, I was able to discern a bit more information.

Ethanol
In the United States, ethanol is sometimes added to gasoline but sold without an indication that it is a component. Chevron, 76, Shell, and several other brands market ethanol-gasoline blends.[citation needed]

In several states, ethanol is added by law to a minimum level which is currently 5.9%. Most fuel pumps display a sticker stating that the fuel may contain up to 10% ethanol, an intentional disparity which allows the minimum level to be raised over time without requiring modification of the literature/labeling. The bill which was being debated at the time the disclosure of the presence of ethanol in the fuel was mandated has recently passed. This law (Energy Bill 2005) will require all auto fuel to contain at least 10% ethanol. Many call this fuel mix gasohol.

SinsinS2000

Was that in your S? I get approximately 230-240 miles out of a full tank in mine.

I had a '98 Mustang before my S, and I once got gas at a Murphy and they had the stickers as well. At that time I couldn't make heads or tails of what the hell it meant but my car ran like crap until I refilled her elsewhere. I never thought gas could make such a difference.

Elroy

Are you putting that 87 ron in you S?

J

captainbk

Fuel chemistry is outside my field but I will tell you what I know.

Here is what Honda has to say:
Some gas stations in our area sell oxygenated fuels or fuels that contain other additives. What's Honda's position on these fuels?

Do not use gasoline containing MMT (Methylcyclopentadienyl Manganese Tricarbonyl). MMT is a gasoline additive that is used by some refiners to boost octane. It contains the metal manganese. This additive contaminates your engine components and exhaust emission control system, and can lead to a significant increase in emissions and a loss in performance and fuel economy. Damage caused by the use of fuels containing MMT mat not be covered under warranty. Gasoline containing MMT is not common in the United States. It is prohibited in federal reformulated gasoline and in all California gasoline. However, MMT has been found in some fuels in the Southwest, mountain states, and the northwest area of New York State. MMT is more prevalent in gasoline sold in Canada, but lately many MMT-free fuels have become available. Regardless of location, the presence of MMT in the fuel will not be indicated on the pump, so it is important to ask your fueling station if their gasoline contains this additive. Alternatively, you may contact the customer service department of your preferred fuel brand with this question.


Some conventional gasolines are being blended with alcohol or an ether compound. These gasolines are collectively referred to as "oxygenated fuels." To meet clean air standards, some areas of the U.S. and Canada use these fuels to help reduce emissions. If you use an oxygenated fuel, be sure it is unleaded and meets the minimum octane rating requirement described in your Owner's Manual.


Before using an oxygenated fuel, try to confirm the fuel's contents. Some states/provinces require this information to be posted on the pump.


The following are the EPA-approved percentages of oxygenates:
ETHANOL (ethyl or grain alcohol): You may use gasoline containing up to 10% ethanol by volume.
MTBE (Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether): You may use gasoline containing up to 15% MTBE by volume.
METHANOL (methyl or wood alcohol): Gasoline containing methanol is not common in North America. Your vehicle was not designed to use fuel that contains methanol. Methanol can damage fuel system components. This damage would not be covered under warranty.


Fuels that exceed the EPA's approved oxygenate percentages for conventional and reformulated gasolines must be clearly labeled on the pump. One example of such a fuel is "E85," which contains 85% ethanol. Do not use such fuels in your vehicle. These fuels will cause performance problems, and may damage your vehicle's engine, fuel system, and emission control system. This damage would not be covered under warranty.


I am not sure if performance issues with10% ethanol would be detectable. I am pretty sure the EMS will compensate for the EtOH and you will not notice any difference in performance. It is possible that you will get less mileage as the energy value for EtOH is less.

captainbk

From the Honda Australia site comes this:

Ethanol is an alcohol, which is distilled from fermented agricultural crops such as wheat and sugar cane. In some cases, it is then blended with petrol in various concentration levels.


Ethanol and your Honda
The following Honda vehicles may be operated using fuel containing up to 10% ethanol (E10):

Accord
2003 onwards
Civic (including Hybrid)
2004 onwards
Integra
2002 onwards
Legend
2007 onwards
Odyssey
2004 onwards
Accord Euro
2003 onwards
CR-V
2003 onwards
Jazz
2004 onwards
MDX
2003 onwards
S2000
2004 onwards


Other Honda vehicles were not designed or tested with E10 and therefore the long-term effects are not proven.

Ethanol contains less energy value than petrol. In theory, some loss of power and fuel economy (possibly 2-3%) may occur when using E10.

For further information, please refer to your vehicle owner's manual, or telephone the Honda Customer Hotline on (freecall) 1800 804 954.

usf97j4x4

87 will run fine. Don't kid yourself.

SinsinS2000

Nope. I wrote in my first post that I didn't. That is just where they placed the sticker since the majority of drivers use regular unleaded.

See Quote

[QUOTE]As I pull up to the island I notice a new sticker on all the pumps that was not there the week before when I filled up. (And no, I didn't get Regular Unleaded!)

captainbk

I use Mobil and occasionally Shell. I have not seen the ethanol signage there.

As for the premium fuel: What is the point of owning a high performance car if you are going to put sub-optimal fuel into it (other than an emergency) The difference is at most about $3 a tankful