windowpane

This past September I got a new MY01 from Scott Honda to replace my wrecked My00.
I noticed the new car had a very slight understeer with respect to my MY00.

After studying the old forum posts, I wrote a detailed slightly aggressive street alignment specification and took it to the Scott Honda service dept. The clerks had no clue, but the mechanics freaked out and told me it would take at least 3 hours, cost more than $200, and was a real pain, (and they hated me).

After that I took it to Firestone in West Goshen and they refused to do it. They told me they only allow 20 minutes labor for an alignment. I spent the next four hours talking with a half dozen independent mechanics in West Chester, including an old friend who worked for Firestone right out of mechanics school. This is what I found out.........

ALMOST NO ONE DOES A REAL WHEEL ALIGNMENT ANY MORE. It really does take at least 3 to 4 hours to do it right. The guys at Firestone put the car on the lift and give it a quick eyeball inspection (Sometimes) and then check front wheel toe-in and do a one iteration rough toe-in adjustment. That's it, done and out the door.

On my friend's recomendation, I took the car to Dougherty Automotive Services, 720 East Nields Street in West Chester.(www.das-sport.com). They sponsor and build serious race cars and work mostly on Volvos, Porshes, and Ferraris. They did it to spec.It cost me $198.75 and took about 3 hours.

Everthing was spec, except front toe in was -0.28 inches.

This is the spec I called for:
Front Camber -0.8 negative degrees
Front Toe In 0.00 Inches
Front Caster 5.75 Degrees
Rear Camber -2.0 negative degrees
Rear Toe In 0.25 Total Inches (1/8" Each Side)
0.44 Total Degrees (0.22 Deg ea. side)

The squirrel is back.

XTC at 9K

[QUOTE]Originally posted by windowpane
This is the spec I called for:

windowpane

The recipe is a compilation of the various wisdoms from s2000online forum searches.
Try your own search .... all will be revealed .... study.

From Helms (Honda Factory) manual, (the Hunter database is similar):

Front Camber: -30 minutes (+/- 10 min.)
Front Toe In: 0.0 inches (+/- 0.08 inches)
Front Caster: 6 degrees, 0.0 Minutes (+/- 15 min.)
Rear Camber: -1 degree, 30 minutes (+/- 10 min.)
Rear Toe In: 0.25 inches (+/- 0.08 inches)

As I said, my MY01 was initially within the above spec. except front toe in.
They readjusted everything to my recipe. The handling has been way sharper since.
Tire wear has been fine. I think I'll up the front camber to -1.0 degree next year.

I think the front toe-in has been dumbed-down by the factory on purpose for the American 01-02 market in response to squirrelly handling preceptions.

I also notice the low beams are tweaked down about 12 inches at 50 yards. I'll fix that in the spring when I put in air horns and HKS pipes. That'll about put me back to where I was before I crashed my MY 00.

Shark

Windowpane,

Would you recommend Dougherty Automotive Services again?

Let me know what you think about your new settings. If you like them, maybe I'll give them a try.

windowpane

Shark

I'm very satisfied with the alignment settings I ended up with. I think I'll use Doughtery's Service in the future. I heard they pay their mechanics more than anyone else in this area.
They might be good for SC work. Check out their web site.

Don't take my word on the alignment settings. There is a GREAT post on alignment just moved back to the top of the main forum today by the moderator and a lot of other good posts in the past. I've learned a lot about this by lurking on the forums.

One word about Dougherty's. Like any high level for profit business, they probably have two levels of service. One for knowlegeable customers and another for those who are not. Give them a written set of specifications and ask them to record the before and after for each setting. I think their 4 wheel flat rate is $187.50 plus tax. They'll test drive the car after adjustment. Them seem pleased to see an S2000 come in.

They're proud of their racing heritage. Schmooze with the owners when you go there.
They sell Sparco seats, fabricate roll cages, provide track mechanics and performance driving instructors for sportscar club events.

My good friend, who owns Wilkinson's Service on Bomar Street, and who's first job out of tech school was for Firestone in W.C, held my hand about this and recommended these guys.
He would do it, but doesn't have an alignment machine, he's in debt for state pollution inspection equipment.

Cheers, Jim Brooks (windowpane)

Shark

Jim,

I'm puzzled as to why it took three hours to perform a 4 wheel alignment on your car.

From what I've seen, they drive the vehicle on the machine, place the sensors on all 4 wheels, adjust the tie-rods and so forth until the number on the machine jives with the factory specs.

Why would it take three hours to do this?

I'm curious because I've been to the same shop three times within the last couple of weeks to get my alignment back to spec, and I still don't think it's right. See https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...&threadid=40248

paS2K

This one's for charlie

windowpane

Shark,

That's just toe-in adjustment Camber is different.

Anyway, just do whatever you want.

As far as the Firestone eternal alignment scam:
where n and m are any real numbers -> (0) x n = 0 < m

That's it,
cheers