Just got back from Performance Chassis in Cary
#21
I had my car aligned at PC a couple of years ago and paid right at $130. He spend a couple hours working it and my specs ended you alot like Red's. I had him put .05 tow in in the fron to keep the car from catching groves in the road. I don't mind paying more for a alignment when the tech is setting the car up for the type of driving I do. My car still drives great to this day.
#22
Originally Posted by MJ@S2K' timestamp='1326810328' post='21324440
[quote name='mlc' timestamp='1326486143' post='21314746']
Here are the US and UK specs for an AP1
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/forums/in...img=12060&md=1
Kevin
Here are the US and UK specs for an AP1
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/forums/in...img=12060&md=1
Kevin
Do you happen to have the AP2 (MY 08) US specs?
Here you go MJ@S2K... Pulled from my In.Honda Enjoy!
[attachment=14859:alignmentAp2.JPG]
[/quote]
Thanks!!!
#23
(The following is coming from my experience autocrossing one of these cars for five years...here comes a dissertation)
Those look like they might be the settings I run on my car. Last I heard, my settings were the ones Performance Chassis used as their "spec" S2000 performance alignment, so to speak. These settings helped my car finish in the trophies at Solo Nationals in B-Stock three years in a row. It also won the 2010 B-Stock Ladies national championship. Always among the top few non-CR AP2s. It was also the third fastest sedan based car at an entire SCCA Divisional up in DC in 2010.
I've had my car aligned at Performance Chassis at least ten times since I bought it in 2007. Not because of something going wrong, but because it took that long to get the settings dialed in to where the three of us who autocross the car all liked it. I tried a shop other than Performance Chassis exactly one time, and will not do so again. The settings were imprecise - badly so - and worse, it wasn't tightened down enough. The car was WAY out of alignment when I brought it back from Lincoln, NE last May. Never again. Performance Chassis is precise and repeatable - at least, they certainly were when I was autocrossing the car a lot. Which I haven't been doing lately.
$100 is pretty standard for the RDU area. Performance Chassis is not close to where I live, so I've priced places from time to time. If they're still at $100, they're down from being one of the more expensive places in the area, to something close to the average.
We (my two codrivers and I) arrived at those caster and camber settings because the two adjustments interact with each other. Change the caster, and you change the camber. And adding a bunch of camber decreases the amount of caster you can get. We decided to set the camber first, to the maximum we can get from my car, roughly 1.9*. Then we set the caster and even the two out.
We found that on 275 Hoosiers, anything more than 2.0 degrees of negative camber in the back meant that the car wouldn't launch well. At Pro Solos, with a near perfect launch, we'd give the Boxsters two tenths, and the STIs more like half a second, just at the lights. So getting the car to launch well was very important.
Rear toe is critically important with these cars. I changed mine 1/16" (total) at a time. So, 1/32" per side. You can feel it, mostly in what I came to call "the tradeoff." I found that you can pick from two places to make the car perfect - either in steady state corners like sweepers, or transitional elements like slaloms. Make the car neutral in sweepers, and it'll be wildly loose in transition work. The opposite is also true - if you make it stable in transitions, it picks up a push steady state. Everybody's different, so I found the best way to baseline it all was with the rear toe. After that, we change shock settings and tire pressures to suit the course and the surface.
Whew. With all that out of the way, I'll say this. These settings are pretty aggressive for a street car with a stock front swaybar. Also, I tried an AP1 set up with these settings, at the DC Pro Solo back in 2010. It was borderline uncontrollable.
Those look like they might be the settings I run on my car. Last I heard, my settings were the ones Performance Chassis used as their "spec" S2000 performance alignment, so to speak. These settings helped my car finish in the trophies at Solo Nationals in B-Stock three years in a row. It also won the 2010 B-Stock Ladies national championship. Always among the top few non-CR AP2s. It was also the third fastest sedan based car at an entire SCCA Divisional up in DC in 2010.
I've had my car aligned at Performance Chassis at least ten times since I bought it in 2007. Not because of something going wrong, but because it took that long to get the settings dialed in to where the three of us who autocross the car all liked it. I tried a shop other than Performance Chassis exactly one time, and will not do so again. The settings were imprecise - badly so - and worse, it wasn't tightened down enough. The car was WAY out of alignment when I brought it back from Lincoln, NE last May. Never again. Performance Chassis is precise and repeatable - at least, they certainly were when I was autocrossing the car a lot. Which I haven't been doing lately.
Thats not a bad price on the mount and balance, a little steep on the alignment though. We charge 20 a tire to m&b, and 59.99 for alignment. Our cars are one of the easier to align I don't see why they charge so much for that. I'm wondering why both of you guy's caster is set where it is. Did you request this? And as far as the rear toe, both cars are within the tolerance range, the difference between .01 and .08 will not be felt. If you drive around the block and put the cars back on the machine the measurements will change more than this. Honestly though neither car is what I would call perfectly aligned. Both sides should match exactly. The specs are within tolerance, but the tech doing the job is not taking his time. We've done my personal car over a dozen times trying different alignment specs and its very easy to get the sides to match perfectly. For a hundred bucks I would want to see no deviation from side to side, and I would be questioning that front caster on both cars. I personally like my Camber at 1.7 front/2.7 rear with 0 front toe and .05 rear toe in. Caster at stock ap2US spec. Seems to work great for nonstaggered tires. Anyway i'm sure both cars drive a whole lot better.
We (my two codrivers and I) arrived at those caster and camber settings because the two adjustments interact with each other. Change the caster, and you change the camber. And adding a bunch of camber decreases the amount of caster you can get. We decided to set the camber first, to the maximum we can get from my car, roughly 1.9*. Then we set the caster and even the two out.
We found that on 275 Hoosiers, anything more than 2.0 degrees of negative camber in the back meant that the car wouldn't launch well. At Pro Solos, with a near perfect launch, we'd give the Boxsters two tenths, and the STIs more like half a second, just at the lights. So getting the car to launch well was very important.
Rear toe is critically important with these cars. I changed mine 1/16" (total) at a time. So, 1/32" per side. You can feel it, mostly in what I came to call "the tradeoff." I found that you can pick from two places to make the car perfect - either in steady state corners like sweepers, or transitional elements like slaloms. Make the car neutral in sweepers, and it'll be wildly loose in transition work. The opposite is also true - if you make it stable in transitions, it picks up a push steady state. Everybody's different, so I found the best way to baseline it all was with the rear toe. After that, we change shock settings and tire pressures to suit the course and the surface.
Whew. With all that out of the way, I'll say this. These settings are pretty aggressive for a street car with a stock front swaybar. Also, I tried an AP1 set up with these settings, at the DC Pro Solo back in 2010. It was borderline uncontrollable.
#24
Broke the S out today at lunch and brought it back to work. On the way, there is this awesom 270 degree sweeping on ramp that I usually take at 55mph spiritedly...effortless took it at 58mph on cold tires which haven't full broken in. Car was planted and I could tell that 58mph is now quite a conservative speed to take it at. Love the Star specs!
#25
Broke the S out today at lunch and brought it back to work. On the way, there is this awesom 270 degree sweeping on ramp that I usually take at 55mph spiritedly...effortless took it at 58mph on cold tires which haven't full broken in. Car was planted and I could tell that 58mph is now quite a conservative speed to take it at. Love the Star specs!
#26
Yeah...about those....
I think they might be worth the extra $$$, but looking at the detailed report...a lot of questions come into play: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=118
If you look at shear handling capabilities, the AD08s are where it's at
I think they might be worth the extra $$$, but looking at the detailed report...a lot of questions come into play: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=118
If you look at shear handling capabilities, the AD08s are where it's at
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xxlap1xx
California - Southern California S2000 Owners
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07-03-2007 07:49 PM