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I purchased my '02 S2K about three weeks ago now. I previously owned an ITR and tended to track the car 6-7x a year. My S2K is a daily driver and while I want a roll bar for protection on track, I also don't really want it full-time. I know many tracks (Summit, CMP, Charlotte infield, maybe Roebling) allow the use of the OE hoops, VIR (my home track) just won't allow it. While I have my heart set on a Elda set-up, part of me just doesn't want to cut plastic ( or purchase OE parts to cut instead) and leave the bar in full-time. This got me to thinking. There is a very knowledgeable local SCCA cage builder and wondered if a taller, larger O.D. hoop could be constructed and swapped in for track weekends. While I haven't seen the OE hoop with the plastic off, it appears to me that I would need an extension of 3-4" (actual bar, not plastic). If possible, a small harness bar inside the hoop for use of a 5pt (not sure if possible in this case). All OE mounting points would be retained as would the OE seatbelt hole. Before I proceed with posting this in the RR forum or contacting the builder, I wanted other thoughts. Fire away!
I suggest you contact Rick Hessell. He has a roll bar installed on his car and I believe its an Elda. Looks good (for a roll bar) and I'm thinking it doesn't interfere with the soft top.
As far as the roll hoops go you are correct. You could swap them for larger ones.
I guess it would be up to the respective track to decide if it is acceptable. I say this because after market roll bars have to meet a certain design criteria that your 'enlarged' roll hoops may not meet.
I know that there is a requirement for it to be angled backwards and have one supporting beam on each side (usually about 15 inches long). Also there is supposed to be a diagonal beam (which is removable in the elda bar).
Originally posted by cashout
I guess it would be up to the respective track to decide if it is acceptable. I say this because after market roll bars have to meet a certain design criteria that your 'enlarged' roll hoops may not meet.
I know that there is a requirement for it to be angled backwards and have one supporting beam on each side (usually about 15 inches long). Also there is supposed to be a diagonal beam (which is removable in the elda bar).
You are correct...assuming you need to meet a rule criteria for competition. Most HPDE groups do not have a construction requirement.
I'm still pretty set on the Elda bar, but just considering my options.
Here's a solution by Triple-H (he lives in Upstate NY Region). He had a custom bar designed for track use (he's an instructor) which didn't interfere with the soft top. Looked really nice, though a bit pricey because it was a custom design.
The problem isn't the bar fitting in the car; ie. due to top clearance, or head room. What I want is a simple safety upgrade with no permanent changes made to the car. The Elda as well as the Triple H require cutting of the plastic OE parts (see pic below). When considering future resale value of the car, I prefer to have the car in OE condition. If I cut interior parts, they will need replacing. I have priced the parts and they add up to over $300. That raises the price of a ROLLBAR installation to over $1000. That is close to full custom cage territory! My thoughts were what could I have built that would meet my requirements and retain a reasonable level of cost.
Please keep the comments coming. I'm linking this to the RR forum.
It is impossible to install a bar AND the trim without any cutting. The solution is to install a proper bar (Elda recommended), and if you dont want to cut the plastic then just don't re-install the plastic. I think it looks great uncovered.
Besides, you can't modify the stock hoops and retain the plastic covers. I once thought that modifying the stock hoops might be a solution also, but it is just not strong enough as increasing its height makes it weaker(and the roof might not close either as they sit further back as you can see below).
My bar cost almost 2 grand. I wanted function and good looks. There was no way I was going to add a rollbar and then remove the center storage bins and the OEM hoops and plastic trim, too unsightly for me. The cut in the plastic trim is extremely minor to me. My bar fits under the soft-top and the OEM hardtop. It was made for me, according to my design. Seat travel is reduced because the bar is bolted and welded directly into the box section of the frame.
A bar that is "removable" is not welded in, and therefore inherently not as strong. A good bolt in bar can be very strong, don't get me wrong, but welded in is better. Also be aware, bolting one in, and taking it out several times a year is going to be a major pain in the but!
Keep in mind, if you want to add an Elda, at the time you sell the car, just replacing the plastic interior trim pieces that are cut would be an extremely minor cost. Just because some interior pieces are cut, does not mean they can't be replaced when you are ready to sell the car and remove the bar.
Just a minor point about welding vs. bolt-in, I would think that what really matters is the size of the attachment point footprint or backing plate, whether welded or bolt-in. As an extreme example, if you weld only to a small footprint area of sheetmetal, it would rip out easily. I agree that for a given footprint area or backing plate area, welding would be stronger, and you wouldn't have to worry about checking the torque of the bolts every now and then. The best would be welding to the frame if possible (which you and others might have done).
10-30-2003, 03:24 PM
Give me your input: Roll hoops
RStoR that's my picture you used only flopped!