The VTEC advantage?
10-18-2006, 10:36 PM
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The VTEC advantage?
During a recent casual browse around a few main dealers, I had my first sit in an S2000 and was immediately impressed by just how 'right' it felt. A test drive a few weeks later reinforced my view of just how special the car feels. Plus I think its pure uncluttered lines and balanced proportions make it one of the best looking cars around at any price.
I've run an early VTEC Civic for years now and really love Honda's high-reving engines. It's now done over 100,000 miles, hasn't missed a beat, still spins smoothly to 8,000 rpm and feels as unburstable as it did ages ago. But I now think it's time for a change and I see the S as a serious contender for a replacement.
But despite my now almost compulsive desire to rush out and buy one, my belief in the advantages of Honda's VTEC system has been shaken a bit.
The cause of this was a quick shuftie through the BMW Z4 brochure. The first figures that leapt off the page were the max power of 265 bhp and 315 Nm torque (at 2,750 rpm) for the 3.0Si (although I've seen lower torque figures in a review in a car magazine).
Ok, I thought, it's a bigger engine. It's bound to develop more power and more torque because of its size and configuration, but it's also bound to be much more thirsty than a 2 litre VTEC engine. Wrong - the official figues say the Z4 3.0Si roadster will return a combined economy of 32.8 mpg. It
I've run an early VTEC Civic for years now and really love Honda's high-reving engines. It's now done over 100,000 miles, hasn't missed a beat, still spins smoothly to 8,000 rpm and feels as unburstable as it did ages ago. But I now think it's time for a change and I see the S as a serious contender for a replacement.
But despite my now almost compulsive desire to rush out and buy one, my belief in the advantages of Honda's VTEC system has been shaken a bit.
The cause of this was a quick shuftie through the BMW Z4 brochure. The first figures that leapt off the page were the max power of 265 bhp and 315 Nm torque (at 2,750 rpm) for the 3.0Si (although I've seen lower torque figures in a review in a car magazine).
Ok, I thought, it's a bigger engine. It's bound to develop more power and more torque because of its size and configuration, but it's also bound to be much more thirsty than a 2 litre VTEC engine. Wrong - the official figues say the Z4 3.0Si roadster will return a combined economy of 32.8 mpg. It
10-18-2006, 10:50 PM
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VTEC to me never meant power vs economy, it just wasn't true. If you were up high in the revs you were using more petrol than a 3.0 anyway.
To me it meant an engine with a nice wide rev range that was ideal for driving hard up and down the gears. Modern cars are revving higher these days anyway though, with even the new Clio hitting the 8krpm mark I believe.
The BMW interior was horrid I found, more so in the 40k Z4M where I thought they would spruce it up a bit. And it's almost practically invisible in grey as there are so many of them about.
For something a bit different, that makes you feel nice when you drive it then the Honda is the one to have. If you want cheaper insurance, fuel bills and more get up and go at low revs then the Z4 is the one you want.
Also bear in mind busy traffic. If you spend a lot of time in queues, then you really must try the Honda in these conditions before deciding. I found the car almost undriveable on my old commute into Glasgow, as it was absolutely terrible at stop start driving due to kangarooing caused by hot air trapped in the engine compartment. Out of sheer frustration I would leave a gap when the traffic moved a few feet and do a dirty great burnout up to the car in front in order to avoid being shook about like a rag doll by the spluttering engine. Grr, just remembered how much that annoyed me.
To me it meant an engine with a nice wide rev range that was ideal for driving hard up and down the gears. Modern cars are revving higher these days anyway though, with even the new Clio hitting the 8krpm mark I believe.
The BMW interior was horrid I found, more so in the 40k Z4M where I thought they would spruce it up a bit. And it's almost practically invisible in grey as there are so many of them about.
For something a bit different, that makes you feel nice when you drive it then the Honda is the one to have. If you want cheaper insurance, fuel bills and more get up and go at low revs then the Z4 is the one you want.
Also bear in mind busy traffic. If you spend a lot of time in queues, then you really must try the Honda in these conditions before deciding. I found the car almost undriveable on my old commute into Glasgow, as it was absolutely terrible at stop start driving due to kangarooing caused by hot air trapped in the engine compartment. Out of sheer frustration I would leave a gap when the traffic moved a few feet and do a dirty great burnout up to the car in front in order to avoid being shook about like a rag doll by the spluttering engine. Grr, just remembered how much that annoyed me.
10-18-2006, 11:02 PM
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[QUOTE=Luke O'Zade,Oct 19 2006, 06:36 AM] The cause of this was a quick shuftie through the BMW Z4 brochure. The first figures that leapt off the page were the max power of 265 bhp and 315 Nm torque (at 2,750 rpm) for the 3.0Si (although I've seen lower torque figures in a review in a car magazine).
Ok, I thought, it's a bigger engine. It's bound to develop more power and more torque because of its size and configuration, but it's also bound to be much more thirsty than a 2 litre VTEC engine. Wrong - the official figues say the Z4 3.0Si roadster will return a combined economy of 32.8 mpg. It
Ok, I thought, it's a bigger engine. It's bound to develop more power and more torque because of its size and configuration, but it's also bound to be much more thirsty than a 2 litre VTEC engine. Wrong - the official figues say the Z4 3.0Si roadster will return a combined economy of 32.8 mpg. It
10-18-2006, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by StevenM,Oct 19 2006, 07:02 AM
(When comparing cars check out the power to weight ratio as this tells you more about the cars than the peak power figures)
Also a small 2L straight 4, vs a large 3.0L straight 6! The F20C is a compact lightweight engine that delivers a lot of power with few ancillaries
10-19-2006, 12:06 AM
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Agreed with Stephen.
Bada...I've never had any real kangarooing issues. Must be your lead feet!!!
Tango...The F20C isn't THAT compact for a 2.0, it's got a huge head on it. As for lightweight...the BM 3.0 is an ally block.
Re: economy vs power...BM are past-masters at that, their I-6 lumps deliver superb economy for their power. But as Stephen said, unless there were big differences between cars, I'd be more concentrating on how the cars made me feel and how they drove.
Test-drive the Z4, then see how you feel. My guess is despite the power advantage it'll be pretty much the same performance as the S2000, but the thicker midrange will make overtaking easier. Handling and ride, however...may be another story. Entirely for you to find out!
Bada...I've never had any real kangarooing issues. Must be your lead feet!!!
Tango...The F20C isn't THAT compact for a 2.0, it's got a huge head on it. As for lightweight...the BM 3.0 is an ally block.
Re: economy vs power...BM are past-masters at that, their I-6 lumps deliver superb economy for their power. But as Stephen said, unless there were big differences between cars, I'd be more concentrating on how the cars made me feel and how they drove.
Test-drive the Z4, then see how you feel. My guess is despite the power advantage it'll be pretty much the same performance as the S2000, but the thicker midrange will make overtaking easier. Handling and ride, however...may be another story. Entirely for you to find out!
10-19-2006, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by havoc UK,Oct 19 2006, 09:06 AM
Bada...I've never had any real kangarooing issues. Must be your lead feet!!!
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10-19-2006, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by havoc UK,Oct 19 2006, 08:06 AM
Tango...The F20C isn't THAT compact for a 2.0, it's got a huge head on it. As for lightweight...the BM 3.0 is an ally block.
The F20C is an alloy block with carbon-fiber reinforced cylinder liners
10-19-2006, 01:16 AM
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Do you really want to be tarred with the BMW brush 
Do you want a thing of beauty or a toast rack ?
Ok cosmetic I know.
I haven't driven any other performance cars so I don't have anything to compare it too but I just love the feeling of hitting v-tec (but not needing too if I'm having a 'lazy' drive), I'm smiling every day I walk into my office after driving my car
I'm not sure whether Jo took me out in the Z3 or Z4 hire car (she had both), but it didn't feel planted as a passenger
Do you want a thing of beauty or a toast rack ?
Ok cosmetic I know.
I haven't driven any other performance cars so I don't have anything to compare it too but I just love the feeling of hitting v-tec (but not needing too if I'm having a 'lazy' drive), I'm smiling every day I walk into my office after driving my car
I'm not sure whether Jo took me out in the Z3 or Z4 hire car (she had both), but it didn't feel planted as a passenger
10-19-2006, 01:33 AM
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When the F20C was developed, it led the way in low-emission, relatively economical high-output 4 cylinder engines. It's abilities far outshone anything the other manufacturers could achieve, many of them with 6 cylinders.
But you're comparing an engine designed 10 years ago with one designed a couple of years ago, so the gap will have lessened as technology advances, espeically in engine management terms meaning that larger engines can be mapped to give great fuel economy and still have a reasonably high power output these days.
You also have to remember that a car is more than it's engine.
The F20C is a remarkable engine, which has won many awards, but the whole package is what you drive and this is where the S2000 scores highly for many of us that bought one (or two, in my case).
Aside from the Elise, there aren't many cars that are so much fun and so rewarding to drive in the price bracket, and it outshines many much more expensive cars too. It has it's flaws, it may not be the most powerful, it doesn't have as many toys and it's not a cheap car to insure, but if you have an ounce of petrol running through your veins, the driving experience of both cars will be what makes your decision for you.
But you're comparing an engine designed 10 years ago with one designed a couple of years ago, so the gap will have lessened as technology advances, espeically in engine management terms meaning that larger engines can be mapped to give great fuel economy and still have a reasonably high power output these days.
You also have to remember that a car is more than it's engine.
The F20C is a remarkable engine, which has won many awards, but the whole package is what you drive and this is where the S2000 scores highly for many of us that bought one (or two, in my case).
Aside from the Elise, there aren't many cars that are so much fun and so rewarding to drive in the price bracket, and it outshines many much more expensive cars too. It has it's flaws, it may not be the most powerful, it doesn't have as many toys and it's not a cheap car to insure, but if you have an ounce of petrol running through your veins, the driving experience of both cars will be what makes your decision for you.