Legal advice needed!
07-12-2007, 09:20 AM
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Legal advice needed!
Hi all,
I'm an ex-S2000 owner and most likely a future one too but having a bit of a nightmare with a certain TVR dealer regarding selling my T350c.
Would love some advice from any wise ones out there as i'm trying to sell my T350 before I get posted to Germany to buy a tax-free car (S2000 is front runner at moment!).
Essentially I took my TVR to a dealership about 7 weeks ago and he took it on "sale or return" promising to return me a certain figure. I'd heard nothing from him until today. The dealer informed me that he had someone interested in the car and from getting the workshop to look over the car said it required over two and a half grands worth doing to it!!!! This would obviously come off what he said he'd return to me.
I wasn't best impressed obviously. I asked him to email me what required doing (which included a service) so I could have a look. I rang back and said that I disagreed with that amount needing doing and so said I would be picking up the car and taking it elsewhere to either sell or get the work done. In my opinion the dealer had overquoted me what he would return to me and so was adding work to boost his profit.
Anyway, half and hour after the first email came through, the dealer sent another one saying that when he returned to the car the workshop had already carried out a load of the work, including a service (which isn't due til Oct!) and has emailed me a
I'm an ex-S2000 owner and most likely a future one too but having a bit of a nightmare with a certain TVR dealer regarding selling my T350c.
Would love some advice from any wise ones out there as i'm trying to sell my T350 before I get posted to Germany to buy a tax-free car (S2000 is front runner at moment!).
Essentially I took my TVR to a dealership about 7 weeks ago and he took it on "sale or return" promising to return me a certain figure. I'd heard nothing from him until today. The dealer informed me that he had someone interested in the car and from getting the workshop to look over the car said it required over two and a half grands worth doing to it!!!! This would obviously come off what he said he'd return to me.
I wasn't best impressed obviously. I asked him to email me what required doing (which included a service) so I could have a look. I rang back and said that I disagreed with that amount needing doing and so said I would be picking up the car and taking it elsewhere to either sell or get the work done. In my opinion the dealer had overquoted me what he would return to me and so was adding work to boost his profit.
Anyway, half and hour after the first email came through, the dealer sent another one saying that when he returned to the car the workshop had already carried out a load of the work, including a service (which isn't due til Oct!) and has emailed me a
07-12-2007, 12:03 PM
#3
Did you sign anything? often a garage gets you to sign a release to allow them to carry out any work required without further contact. If not tell them to **** ***.
07-12-2007, 12:12 PM
#4
Funny that. The TVR dealer in Scotland was a shyster too.
I'd say it's clear cut. You gave him a car on a "sale or return" basis but did NOT give him authority to carry out any work. The only thing that might save him will be the conditions in any contract you had regarding the sale of the car. I sold my Chimaera on this basis (but not through a TVR dealer) and had a document specifying the basis of the deal.
Small Claims Court may indeed be the eventual outcome, but I would have thought a letter from a solicitor might preempt that. Get the solicitor to point out the absence of any authority from you for the work and that the dealer has therefore done it at his own risk.
Good luck ...
I'd say it's clear cut. You gave him a car on a "sale or return" basis but did NOT give him authority to carry out any work. The only thing that might save him will be the conditions in any contract you had regarding the sale of the car. I sold my Chimaera on this basis (but not through a TVR dealer) and had a document specifying the basis of the deal.
Small Claims Court may indeed be the eventual outcome, but I would have thought a letter from a solicitor might preempt that. Get the solicitor to point out the absence of any authority from you for the work and that the dealer has therefore done it at his own risk.
Good luck ...
07-12-2007, 12:23 PM
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I don't think you have any claim against him as you haven't yet suffered any loss.
I would request the return of the vehicle, and unless you have signed something to say you agreed for the work to be carried out and would pay costs etc etc he could be guilty of theft (?)
Or is there an automatic lien over property in such cases?
I would request the return of the vehicle, and unless you have signed something to say you agreed for the work to be carried out and would pay costs etc etc he could be guilty of theft (?)
Or is there an automatic lien over property in such cases?
07-12-2007, 11:42 PM
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You didn't give authority for him to undertake the work, so it's his problem that it was done.
He has your car, you want it back. Firstly, write a letter stating this, and stating you gave no authority for any work to be done. Give a reasonable time limit for the car to be returned to you, with respect to the following....
I have a feeling he is entitled to return the car to the state you gave it to him, ie. unserviced. So he may, if he feels aggrieved want to take back the service parts. BUT, he has to replace them with the original parts, state this in your letter. Not many workshops keep old filters and plugs so you should be in luck.
So, a letter stating that he has your property and you want it back. You gave no authority for any work to be carried out.
He is entitled to remove any parts that were replaced in error by the workshop but only if the original parts are put back.
A reasonable time to do this work is 2 working days and after that you will persue the matter through the small claims court to retrieve your property.
Good luck.
He has your car, you want it back. Firstly, write a letter stating this, and stating you gave no authority for any work to be done. Give a reasonable time limit for the car to be returned to you, with respect to the following....
I have a feeling he is entitled to return the car to the state you gave it to him, ie. unserviced. So he may, if he feels aggrieved want to take back the service parts. BUT, he has to replace them with the original parts, state this in your letter. Not many workshops keep old filters and plugs so you should be in luck.
So, a letter stating that he has your property and you want it back. You gave no authority for any work to be carried out.
He is entitled to remove any parts that were replaced in error by the workshop but only if the original parts are put back.
A reasonable time to do this work is 2 working days and after that you will persue the matter through the small claims court to retrieve your property.
Good luck.
07-13-2007, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by euan,Jul 12 2007, 09:23 PM
Or is there an automatic lien over property in such cases?
That said, I'm not sure the point arises. I agree with all the points Mark makes above - if there was no express instructions to do the work, and there was no implicit authority given as part of the more general retainer to sell the car on a sale-or-return basis, the dealer has done work without authority and the problem is his. We don't get as far as considering the exercise of a lien as the work done for which payment has not been made was not authorised.
If you're unable to sort the problem out with the dealer directly, check your home contents policy to see whether it has legal expenses insurance cover that includes contractual disputes. Might also be worth checking whether you have LEI cover as part of your car insurance too and, if so, what it covers - but that's probably a bit more of a longshot.
Good luck getting it sorted.
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07-13-2007, 12:42 AM
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No - the definition of theft is dishonestly appropriating property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving them of it.
It falls down on at least two components of that test.
Still, it may be worth calling Dibble and seeing whether they will pay the dealer a visit - though my gut feeling is that they will say that it's a civil dispute and they can't get involved (for which read, they can't be arsed to).
It falls down on at least two components of that test.
Still, it may be worth calling Dibble and seeing whether they will pay the dealer a visit - though my gut feeling is that they will say that it's a civil dispute and they can't get involved (for which read, they can't be arsed to).