Caterham engine failure
02-18-2009, 06:12 AM
#34
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Right well.. Andy started it up and it rattled like a diesel, and he immediately said the crank is gone (which he demonstrated on another one so I now know what makes the rattly noise!)
I asked lots of questions and learnt a lot, by virtue of the fact there wer ea few engines in bits in the workshop so I've now seen forged pistons and standard ones, piston rings, con rods, heads, valves/springs/lifters and a crank shaft and a cam shaft !
More than likely oil starvation caused the crank to go so I'm looking at a minimum of crank shaft, oil pump and con rods (plus whatever else is broken + the labour to take the engine out and clean it up of metal shavings etc). Potential damage to the top end too (although doesn't sound too likely) and might get that refreshed while it's out anyway.
Plus whatever is the root cause because all this damage is only the symptom
Andy said he's really really unusual and the only times he's seen it before are one guy who forgot to put oil in (dry sumped) and one guy with a wet sump whose foam broke up and blocked something.
Could be a cracked piston (unlikely as I have the uprated ones), could have overheated (again unlikely as there would have been other symptoms), could have run out of oil (no because it was showing oil on the dip). Could be when the oil was changed the dry sump tower wasn't iflled up as well as the main resevoir, which mean sthe scavenger just picks up air and theres no oil for the engine, but I would have thought that a) the guy who did it would have don eit properly, plus b) it wouldn't have lasted as long as it did
Apparently it is so loud rattling that it sounds like there's a hole in it (which ties in with the amount of oil everywhere) but if there is one it isn't obvious.
Will know more by the end of tomorrow hopefully, my main worry at the moment is they can't diagnose the root cuase of all this, or that they can and it's something daft, or something very serious (not sure which is worst really!)
So it's going to be expensive, about as bad as it could be I suppose barring a new engine!
And yes limited to one particular guy to do the work, but at least I know he has a lot of experience with them and he doesn't seem out to capitalise on this at all.
I asked lots of questions and learnt a lot, by virtue of the fact there wer ea few engines in bits in the workshop so I've now seen forged pistons and standard ones, piston rings, con rods, heads, valves/springs/lifters and a crank shaft and a cam shaft !
More than likely oil starvation caused the crank to go so I'm looking at a minimum of crank shaft, oil pump and con rods (plus whatever else is broken + the labour to take the engine out and clean it up of metal shavings etc). Potential damage to the top end too (although doesn't sound too likely) and might get that refreshed while it's out anyway.
Plus whatever is the root cause because all this damage is only the symptom
Andy said he's really really unusual and the only times he's seen it before are one guy who forgot to put oil in (dry sumped) and one guy with a wet sump whose foam broke up and blocked something.
Could be a cracked piston (unlikely as I have the uprated ones), could have overheated (again unlikely as there would have been other symptoms), could have run out of oil (no because it was showing oil on the dip). Could be when the oil was changed the dry sump tower wasn't iflled up as well as the main resevoir, which mean sthe scavenger just picks up air and theres no oil for the engine, but I would have thought that a) the guy who did it would have don eit properly, plus b) it wouldn't have lasted as long as it did
Apparently it is so loud rattling that it sounds like there's a hole in it (which ties in with the amount of oil everywhere) but if there is one it isn't obvious.
Will know more by the end of tomorrow hopefully, my main worry at the moment is they can't diagnose the root cuase of all this, or that they can and it's something daft, or something very serious (not sure which is worst really!)
So it's going to be expensive, about as bad as it could be I suppose barring a new engine!
And yes limited to one particular guy to do the work, but at least I know he has a lot of experience with them and he doesn't seem out to capitalise on this at all.
02-18-2009, 06:23 AM
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Bummer Jo, not as bad as it could have been though, so keep smiling through the grimace as you hand over the cash.
He'll get to the bottom of it, I shouldn't worry about him not being able to find out what caused it initially, he'll know as soon as he gets the think to pieces.
Still think the scavenge pump might be the cause, if it's breaking up internally, that would explain milky oil and the fluctuations in oil temp.
Keep your chin up
He'll get to the bottom of it, I shouldn't worry about him not being able to find out what caused it initially, he'll know as soon as he gets the think to pieces.
Still think the scavenge pump might be the cause, if it's breaking up internally, that would explain milky oil and the fluctuations in oil temp.
Keep your chin up
02-18-2009, 06:30 AM
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Sorry to hear that, worse than I thought it would be
A thing to keep in mind is that you'll end up with a fresher engine than you had before it went bang, so it's not all a loss.
A thing to keep in mind is that you'll end up with a fresher engine than you had before it went bang, so it's not all a loss.
02-18-2009, 06:42 AM
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This is true - he's going to have a look at the valves and see whether he thinks it needs a top end refresh/rebuild too while it's there - it'll cost me a little bit more, but the labour to take the top end out has already been covered. If he does then it will be a completely refreshed engine, which to be fair it probably wanted anyway!
If it has put a hole in the engine somewhere what happens - can you patch the hole or is that new block time??
If it has put a hole in the engine somewhere what happens - can you patch the hole or is that new block time??
02-18-2009, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkB,Feb 18 2009, 04:23 PM
Bummer Jo, not as bad as it could have been though, so keep smiling through the grimace as you hand over the cash.
He'll get to the bottom of it, I shouldn't worry about him not being able to find out what caused it initially, he'll know as soon as he gets the think to pieces.
Still think the scavenge pump might be the cause, if it's breaking up internally, that would explain milky oil and the fluctuations in oil temp.
Keep your chin up
He'll get to the bottom of it, I shouldn't worry about him not being able to find out what caused it initially, he'll know as soon as he gets the think to pieces.
Still think the scavenge pump might be the cause, if it's breaking up internally, that would explain milky oil and the fluctuations in oil temp.
Keep your chin up
) yes agreed, although I did mention that as a possibility and he seemed sceptical.Oh well, at least I know now roughly what price.. well at least I've got a starting point anyway although I imagine it could shoot up wards or end up being slightly less.
He seems like a good guy plus he races in the series, so cross all the fingers and toes!
02-18-2009, 06:47 AM
#39
Originally Posted by dreamer,Feb 18 2009, 03:42 PM
This is true - he's going to have a look at the valves and see whether he thinks it needs a top end refresh/rebuild too while it's there - it'll cost me a little bit more, but the labour to take the top end out has already been covered. If he does then it will be a completely refreshed engine, which to be fair it probably wanted anyway!
If it has put a hole in the engine somewhere what happens - can you patch the hole or is that new block time??
If it has put a hole in the engine somewhere what happens - can you patch the hole or is that new block time??
Blocks can be repaired but its a very expensive option and something best limited to classic cars, not race cars.
Sorry to hear that though Jo.
02-18-2009, 07:05 AM
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Agree with Rich, a new K-Series block would be far cheaper and far stronger than patching the one you have.
if you have (or can spare) the cash, I'd go for the top end refresh too, as the engine is out and in bits for inspection, in the long run you'll save money.
if you have (or can spare) the cash, I'd go for the top end refresh too, as the engine is out and in bits for inspection, in the long run you'll save money.