4x4's
01-15-2010, 03:37 AM
#51
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Originally Posted by Rob88,Jan 15 2010, 01:02 PM
1 But if you need to occasionally take 5 adults and luggage up to the lake district then you consider that when you buy a car.
2 If you need to bounce over 23 speedbumps every day, you might want some bigger suspension.
3 If you sometimes need to put 2 extra kids in the boot, and want 5 star crash rating and sometimes want to fold the seats flat to carry antique chairs to Norwich or 10 boxes of documents to London then you look for something with space.
4 If you remember the floods last year, and the snow this year then you might want something higher. Especially if it’s the same price and running costs as a ‘normal’ car.
Sure, in a perfect world everyone would have a smart car for the summer school run and then have a spare range rover in the garage for the grown-up trip to Glenshee in December. But that’s not going to happen.
2 If you need to bounce over 23 speedbumps every day, you might want some bigger suspension.
3 If you sometimes need to put 2 extra kids in the boot, and want 5 star crash rating and sometimes want to fold the seats flat to carry antique chairs to Norwich or 10 boxes of documents to London then you look for something with space.
4 If you remember the floods last year, and the snow this year then you might want something higher. Especially if it’s the same price and running costs as a ‘normal’ car.
Sure, in a perfect world everyone would have a smart car for the summer school run and then have a spare range rover in the garage for the grown-up trip to Glenshee in December. But that’s not going to happen.
2 Potentially a point, but do people buy an X5 just because of speedbumps? It's an expensive alternative to buying a 320d estate and going a tiny bit slower. I lived in speed bump central when I had the S - never a problem
3. Like an estate car? Even a people carrier?
4. I'd be interested to know the proportion of High 4x4s (as opposed to Impreza / Legacy / Audi / Porsche 911 C4 etc which are all 4wd) to other cars in London and the SE and then compare that with the alps. I'm guessing the ratio will be higher in London.
01-15-2010, 03:38 AM
#52
UK Moderator
No-one's talking about beaters, so I'll ignore that.
We're talking about things like Q7s and X5s (see above).
These offer little in the way of extra interior space, and are far less comfortable than their estate car equivalents.
We are talking about Urban and Suburban driving where mud on the road is rarely, if ever an issue, and neither is standing water.
The "advantages" are far outweighed by the disadvantages these types of vehicle have on other road users, which is why so many people dislike them.
We're talking about things like Q7s and X5s (see above).
These offer little in the way of extra interior space, and are far less comfortable than their estate car equivalents.
We are talking about Urban and Suburban driving where mud on the road is rarely, if ever an issue, and neither is standing water.
The "advantages" are far outweighed by the disadvantages these types of vehicle have on other road users, which is why so many people dislike them.
01-15-2010, 03:49 AM
#55
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Selfishness.
I think that’s a bit harsh.
Unless you want to apply the same Selfish badge to anyone who drives a car that isn’t exactly fit for the purpose at hand.
Most of us are selfish for driving a loud S2000 when we could be driving a quieter mondeo.
We’re all selfish for driving a 2L, or V8 when we’d still get to our destination in a 1L MK3 Cavalier.
Someone in a bog standard Mini can be more a nuisance on a road than someone in a Q7 or X5 if they drive inconsiderately.
Someone’s choice of what car to buy is their own personal decision. It’s a bit harsh to call them selfish because they decided a bigger 4x4 was the best choice for them.
I think that’s a bit harsh.
Unless you want to apply the same Selfish badge to anyone who drives a car that isn’t exactly fit for the purpose at hand.
Most of us are selfish for driving a loud S2000 when we could be driving a quieter mondeo.
We’re all selfish for driving a 2L, or V8 when we’d still get to our destination in a 1L MK3 Cavalier.
Someone in a bog standard Mini can be more a nuisance on a road than someone in a Q7 or X5 if they drive inconsiderately.
Someone’s choice of what car to buy is their own personal decision. It’s a bit harsh to call them selfish because they decided a bigger 4x4 was the best choice for them.
01-15-2010, 04:12 AM
#56
UK Moderator
All things being equal, a 4x4 being driven in the same manner as a MINI:
Takes up more road space which causes blockages and congestion;
Causes more pollution;
Makes more noise;
Obstructs the view of other road users;
Will cause more damage to other road users in the event of a crash; and
Will cause more road wear.
Takes up more road space which causes blockages and congestion;
Causes more pollution;
Makes more noise;
Obstructs the view of other road users;
Will cause more damage to other road users in the event of a crash; and
Will cause more road wear.
01-15-2010, 04:18 AM
#57
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All true.
But you can apply all those comments to someone who chooses to buy a 5 door A4 estate rather than a 2 door A3 or a mini.
When one buys a car you don’t (generally) consider the effect it has on other road users and the tarmac as much as the effect it has on yourself as a driver and your family as passengers.
Selfish… maybe.
But you can apply all those comments to someone who chooses to buy a 5 door A4 estate rather than a 2 door A3 or a mini.
When one buys a car you don’t (generally) consider the effect it has on other road users and the tarmac as much as the effect it has on yourself as a driver and your family as passengers.
Selfish… maybe.
01-15-2010, 04:44 AM
#58
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You can't compare 4x4 with a mini..... we're comparing them to estates here so let's stick to that; comparable amounts of boot space (I'd argue with that though, the Land Cruiser boot is big and you have the benefit of it being tall so you can stack it high).
I don't see why it's selfish; as has been shown a 4x4 doesn't really take up any more space than an estate car length-ways on the road, and emissions-wise they aren't any worse than a performance sports car.
Yes they tend to be heavier (at least things like the LC are) so arguably cause more damage to the road surface, but then you don't tend to be accelerating/braking as hard or doing burnouts in them which also damage the road surface
And yes you can do lots of things with an estate than you can with a 4x4, but it is often easier with a 4x4. I know towing is easy peasy with a big diesel auto, I've never had a problem towing into fields (or out) or up big hills, or on the motorway, and loading it up with a weekends race gear is easy peasy. This is in comparison to our old Mondeo which with its FWD sometimes got stuck pulling away up a hill in slippery conditions, would have required clever packing to get everything in and probably would have been riding the bump stops at the back, and wouldn't fit 7 people in it (for when Chris transports students around at Jitsu).
Plus I like the look of them... selfish? Not sure.. looks play a role in almost everybody's car choices.
I don't see why it's selfish; as has been shown a 4x4 doesn't really take up any more space than an estate car length-ways on the road, and emissions-wise they aren't any worse than a performance sports car.
Yes they tend to be heavier (at least things like the LC are) so arguably cause more damage to the road surface, but then you don't tend to be accelerating/braking as hard or doing burnouts in them which also damage the road surface
And yes you can do lots of things with an estate than you can with a 4x4, but it is often easier with a 4x4. I know towing is easy peasy with a big diesel auto, I've never had a problem towing into fields (or out) or up big hills, or on the motorway, and loading it up with a weekends race gear is easy peasy. This is in comparison to our old Mondeo which with its FWD sometimes got stuck pulling away up a hill in slippery conditions, would have required clever packing to get everything in and probably would have been riding the bump stops at the back, and wouldn't fit 7 people in it (for when Chris transports students around at Jitsu).
Plus I like the look of them... selfish? Not sure.. looks play a role in almost everybody's car choices.
01-15-2010, 04:46 AM
#59
UK Moderator
You brought up the MINI comparison, but let's compare an A4 (or A6) estate on the same basis:
All things being equal, a 4x4 being driven in the same manner as a A4 or A6 estate:
Takes up more road space which causes blockages and congestion;
Causes more pollution;
Makes more noise;
Obstructs the view of other road users;
Will cause more damage to other road users in the event of a crash; and
Will cause more road wear.
That's why people don't like them.
All things being equal, a 4x4 being driven in the same manner as a A4 or A6 estate:
Takes up more road space which causes blockages and congestion;
Causes more pollution;
Makes more noise;
Obstructs the view of other road users;
Will cause more damage to other road users in the event of a crash; and
Will cause more road wear.
That's why people don't like them.
01-15-2010, 04:50 AM
#60
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Ok A6 Avant (just googled)
Length4927 mm - 16'2"
Width1855 mm - 6'1" - exc. mirrors
Height1459 mm - 4'9"
Boot Capacity 546 litres
2001 Land Cruiser (like ours which is why i chose it)
length 4,890,
width 1,941,
overall height (mm): 1,859
Cargo capacity: rear seat down (liters): 2,571 and all seats in place (liters): 589
Interesting -it's actually shorter than an A6 estate, although every so slightly wider. And with 40 litres more boot capacity with the back seats up, only more accessible.
Length4927 mm - 16'2"
Width1855 mm - 6'1" - exc. mirrors
Height1459 mm - 4'9"
Boot Capacity 546 litres
2001 Land Cruiser (like ours which is why i chose it)
length 4,890,
width 1,941,
overall height (mm): 1,859
Cargo capacity: rear seat down (liters): 2,571 and all seats in place (liters): 589
Interesting -it's actually shorter than an A6 estate, although every so slightly wider. And with 40 litres more boot capacity with the back seats up, only more accessible.