TheDonEffect

That's my point, when the power levels go beyond stock, the fwd becomes a handicap. Honda apparently did a great job with its stock setup, but when the power gets turned up, and most of these hot hatches can easily achieve 100hp, the fwd torque steer will manifest itself. Sure on a highway race it won't matter, but Honda guys are supposed to be more about corners then risking public lives on the highway, so coming out of a corner with that much power going only to the front wheels spells letdown.

iforyou

The design of the suspension means that torque steer just doesn't really manifest itself. The torque steer moment is the product of steering offset and the tractive force (the engine torque). Therefore the amount of torque steer is proportional to the steering offset. For the Civic Type R, this steering offset is pretty much 0. And as we all know, 0 times anything is still 0. So, 0 steering offset times 300lbft of torque gives you 0 torque steer moment. Likewise, 0 steering offset times 1000lbft of torque also gives you 0 torque steer moment. The idea is that the torque differences are geometrically eliminated. Just the way physics works.

The torque steer isn't the problem. The bigger problem is putting that power to the ground effectively when you have 500hp or something. Certainly do-able, as there are many EKs, DC2s, EG's that make a ton of power and are still pretty darn fast on a track. But by then, one would probably have to sacrifice a lot of ride quality to achieve that. Not something that the CTR is really designed for. And as mentioned, if 0-60mph and 1/4 mile ET are important for you, then the Civic Type R is definitely not for you. Also, if tracking your car in the rain or snow is important to you, the CTR is also not gonna satisfy you.

Coming from a S2000, these are things that aren't too important for me. May be I'm wrong, but I'd imagine most S2000 owners also don't feel 0-60mph and 1/4 mile ET being the biggest assets of the S2000 too?

TheDonEffect

Sorry I was trying to explain understeer coming out of a turn, but youre sayihg with the power turned up there won't be any torque steer getting off the line? So I can turn the power to 500hp and it'll come off the line like it did stock?

Chibo

I think you're splitting hairs here, people love to talk about how cars act on the limit but very few ever actually get to see what the real limit of the car is and instead are hitting limits caused by their terrible driving habits or car setups that are way outside the bounds that could be considered proper. Generally, they are driving well inside of the envelope that will have most cars acting the same. Kinda like how people talk about the S2000 being a snap-oversteer machine. It's not, unless you have bad habits that lead to ending up in a situation that will allow you to quickly exceed available grip. Braking hard on corner entrance, lifting of the throttle abruptly in corners, not staying in the throttle when the back end gets loose, etc.

Suspension geometry strongly affects torque steer. I had a first gen Mini-S that had pretty bad torque steer, now I have a FiST that has even worse torque steer. I also owned a MK7 GTI that had very little torque steer, and have driven a CTR which had no obvious torque steer.

TheDonEffect

So... a 400hp fwd car vs a 400hp awd car will put power down the same coming out of a corner? And the snap oversteer in the s2000 is real, and what it means is that the car doesn't have approachable limits, it's grip grip grip let go, and when it does it's hard to catch.
Well I guess by your perspective fwd is a comparable setup to rwd and awd, and it's only a drivers bad habits that keep them from understanding this.

boosted180sx

I think what he's trying to say is, not everyone whose going to buy these kind of cars aren't going to the track and hitting the "limits" of the car so it's less of an issue than you are trying to make it out to be.

TheDonEffect

He's also saying that torque steer doesn't exist provided that the geometry is correct. And most people buying these cars will likely modify them beyond the stock power.

boosted180sx

There's no doubt that people will modify them beyond stock power. Once people start pushing power out of it, we will see how the torque steer gets.
I'm sure torque steer exists due to the nature of the drivetrain layout alone but the suspension geometry really does a good job of minimizing torque steer to the point where you don't notice any. My 9th gen SI with only like 250 tq torque steered really bad while the CTR with more torque has zero issues. How that will change with more power? Only time will tell.

So far at 390hp(+~100)/350tq(+~70), there doesn't seem to be any additional torque steer from the car.

lovegroova

"Most" Is that really the case? I'd suspect that "most" will leave it alone, for at least the warranty period.

iqbad

This was discussed previously in this thread, I don't think high drag is a problem on the CTR, the relatively high top speed compared to the installed power speaks against this.